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Manly Pride Debacle

My general thoughts, as a straight half-anglo/half-arab Christian male, so take them with however many grains of salt you wish:

* LGBTQIA+ has become such a large group now that putting support behind the 'movement' without caveats is a very messy and complicated affair. As a random example (don't @ me), one might be comfortable saying they are 100% behind the sexuality side of this movement, but against say allowing hormone blockers to pre-pubescent children based on a transient gender identity. It's not straightforward.

* Manly not talking to their players was inept management. That the players have been blindsided is one of the issues here. They all know that a large portion of Pasifika players are from Christian backgrounds to a varying degree. Their views would not be unknown to them. Heck, the media is happy to broadcast and put focus on things like Fiji's pre-match hymn, or focus on opponents praying together after a match, then act shocked when this sort of thing happens.

* I like what Peter Fitzsimons wrote (colour me shocked) - Manly should have had Ian Roberts come in and address the playing group about why this is important. The players could have then come out at the jersey unveiling press conference saying "we are wearing this jersey not to support any political movement but as a simple message to say Rugby League and Manly are for everyone".

* Just like organisations now include acknowledgements of country, a statement should be on each club's websites with a message about Rugby League being a game for all, no matter your race, religion, sexuality or gender identity. They should even have the Ground Announcer make this statement at each home game. It happens sometimes but should happen all the time. All but the most misguided of persons would agree that anyone can participate or watch Rugby League.

* In Christianity, homosexuality in and of itself is not a sin. The act of sex outside of a committed male-female marriage is the sin - any sex. If any of them have slept with someone pre-marriage it's the same sin as sleeping with a dude. So make of that what you will. Also the 'Jesus never said anything about homosexuality' statement doesn't hold any water because Christians believe the Bible - the whole Bible - is the inspired word of a triune God. If it's in the Bible, it's from God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

* Now many billions around the world hold to Christianity as their core identity and being. Many do not. As a functioning Western democracy - whose morality primarily comes from Judeo-Christian teachings anyway (and we could learn from our Indigenous brothers and sisters too) - separation of Church and state is vitally important. Australia is not a theocracy and nor should it be. But it's important to treat everyone with respect and humility. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Straight, Gay, Black, White. Everyone. Outrage for outrage sake and cancel culture does nothing to improve human interaction.

"We instinctively tend to limit for whom we exert ourselves. We do it for people like us, and for people whom we like. Jesus will have none of that. By depicting a Samaritan helping a Jew, Jesus could not have found a more forceful way to say that anyone at all in need - regardless of race, politics, class, and religion - is your neighbour. Not everyone is your brother or sister in faith, but everyone is your neighbour, and you must love your neighbour."
― Timothy Keller, Generous Justice
 
One thing is for certain… if any other club tries to do something similar to Manly, you can bet they will run a proper consultation process.
 
I can really see both sides of this. I think Manly intended to do a good thing, but what a terrible way to go about it. Unprofessional and clumsy.

We almost seem to have different jerseys for many occasions now. Indigenous, womens round, ANZAC ,etc, and players seem to wear them without fuss. I could imagine though if you tried to introduce an indigenous jersey 60 years ago you would have got a similar reaction to todays (sadly). I'd hope in time that LGBTQ will be more accepted.

I find some of these religious fundamentalist views abhorrent, whether Christian, Muslim or otherwise. But I also understand how it would feel to have to wear a jersey depicting something you strongly opposed. Another part of me thinks that their employer is asking them to wear a uniform and promote their club to a section of the community not often associated with the NRL, a new market. If they don't want to do this there are other jobs they could do.
 
Rabbitman said:
saying “I doubt, very much” implies that you have an ulterior motive in mind. So what is it?
Click to expand...

You clearly have an inability to read or just stewing for a fight.
I‘ve said, quite clearly, that I believe it was a poor decision probably based on the marketing $$$$
 
Manly have to figure out where their priorities lie, try to obtain 2 points to help with their efforts to make the finals or be a vehicle for for social issues.

Interesting thing to me is cultures like in Tonga, Samoa and perhaps others create a part of their society for gay people. If you have ever been to one you see them out there quite freely and part of families, even have their own clubs.

Worst thing to me is the imposters from Bondi Junction get handed 2 easy points.
 
yobbo84 said:
My general thoughts, as a straight half-anglo/half-arab Christian male, so take them with however many grains of salt you wish:

* LGBTQIA+ has become such a large group now that putting support behind the 'movement' without caveats is a very messy and complicated affair. As a random example (don't @ me), one might be comfortable saying they are 100% behind the sexuality side of this movement, but against say allowing hormone blockers to pre-pubescent children based on a transient gender identity. It's not straightforward.

* Manly not talking to their players was inept management. That the players have been blindsided is one of the issues here. They all know that a large portion of Pasifika players are from Christian backgrounds to a varying degree. Their views would not be unknown to them. Heck, the media is happy to broadcast and put focus on things like Fiji's pre-match hymn, or focus on opponents praying together after a match, then act shocked when this sort of thing happens.

* I like what Peter Fitzsimons wrote (colour me shocked) - Manly should have had Ian Roberts come in and address the playing group about why this is important. The players could have then come out at the jersey unveiling press conference saying "we are wearing this jersey not to support any political movement but as a simple message to say Rugby League and Manly are for everyone".

* Just like organisations now include acknowledgements of country, a statement should be on each club's websites with a message about Rugby League being a game for all, no matter your race, religion, sexuality or gender identity. They should even have the Ground Announcer make this statement at each home game. It happens sometimes but should happen all the time. All but the most misguided of persons would agree that anyone can participate or watch Rugby League.

* In Christianity, homosexuality in and of itself is not a sin. The act of sex outside of a committed male-female marriage is the sin - any sex. If any of them have slept with someone pre-marriage it's the same sin as sleeping with a dude. So make of that what you will. Also the 'Jesus never said anything about homosexuality' statement doesn't hold any water because Christians believe the Bible - the whole Bible - is the inspired word of a triune God. If it's in the Bible, it's from God (the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit).

* Now many billions around the world hold to Christianity as their core identity and being. Many do not. As a functioning Western democracy - whose morality primarily comes from Judeo-Christian teachings anyway (and we could learn from our Indigenous brothers and sisters too) - separation of Church and state is vitally important. Australia is not a theocracy and nor should it be. But it's important to treat everyone with respect and humility. Christian, Muslim, Atheist, Straight, Gay, Black, White. Everyone. Outrage for outrage sake and cancel culture does nothing to improve human interaction.

"We instinctively tend to limit for whom we exert ourselves. We do it for people like us, and for people whom we like. Jesus will have none of that. By depicting a Samaritan helping a Jew, Jesus could not have found a more forceful way to say that anyone at all in need - regardless of race, politics, class, and religion - is your neighbour. Not everyone is your brother or sister in faith, but everyone is your neighbour, and you must love your neighbour."
― Timothy Keller, Generous Justice
Click to expand...
Well written but the church is just out of date.

Jesus would accept and love all. The church does not. I don't want to say anymore as I do believe in the right for people to have heir religious beliefs. As a Christian male i have chosen to act like Jesus would and not necessarily follow the church teachings.
 
This is a real tough situation here. How are the Manly fans going to respond to the players that have stood themselves down? Are they going to understand or are they going to turn on these players?

You would think with these players missing the Roosters put a score on them. This could end their season. I’m sure there are plenty of fans out there that are angry about this.

How would you feel it this were us in this situation? Would you be upset at the club? Or the players? Maybe both? Or maybe supportive of all?

Here are Manly thinking they were doing a great thing. But this now has bigger consequences. Would doing this earlier in the season be a better thing?

This was always going to cause huge divide. Once they went ahead with it then it didn’t matter what they did. I guess for them not backing down whilst supporting their players freedom to not wear it was the best way for them to handle it.

I did think that they would have allowed those players to play in the normal jerseys though.

One thing for certain. This is not just a Manly player issue. Any team that does the same thing would have the same issue. There will be players refusing to wear it. I guess if there ever was the thought of having a Pride round it won’t happen now.
 
Smiths Crisps said:
Whilst I agree, I note that you have a pink and green jersey as your avatar...
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I get what you're trying to say.

However, my avatar changes most weeks as you may have noticed. My avatars are actually phone lock screen wallpapers that I make myself for my phone. I change it to match whatever jersey we are wearing that Round.

So while I do support Women In League Round, Indigenous Round, and I would support a Pride Round if there was one, my avatar isn't necessarily just what it is right now because I just support Women In League Round, it is simply because that's the jersey the club is wearing this weekend.

I hope that makes sense.
 
Good old religion shitting on peoples entitlement to exist.

I support the pride round. It should be separate to women round though.

Gay people are still murdered internationally and still deal with a shit pile of hate domestically because they simply exist. The comments on social media are vile and I'm shocked to see the homophobes on this forum.

Religion is a cancer. Jesus wasn't real. You all pray to your own internal monologue. Grow up.
 
callmack1 said:
I get what you're trying to say.

However, my avatar changes most weeks as you may have noticed. My avatars are actually phone lock screen wallpapers that I make myself for my phone. I change it to match whatever jersey we are wearing that Round.

So while I do support Women In League Round, Indigenous Round, and I would support a Pride Round if there was one, my avatar isn't necessarily just what it is right now because I just support Women In League Round, it is simply because that's the jersey the club is wearing this weekend.

I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...
Wasn't having a go at you, nor disagreeing. Was just observing that you had a women's pink and green jersey avatar whilst saying you thought red and green was sufficient to represent everyone.
 
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