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The 20-Team Competiton: Vlandys

Closest you could get is a dual conference system with no inter-conference play.

So two groups of 10, 18 rounds, you play everybody in your conference twice (H&A), and the only time you ever play anyone from the other conference is in the grand final (following a conference championship).

But never playing the Storm, Broncos, etc might be too extreme a notion for some to stomach. But it would be 100% fair right through to the conference championship though.

Would be like if Newcastle and Broncos had played in a GF post the ARL and Super League seasons.

Again, probably a little extreme, but certainly the most fair (when needing to fit the season into 18-25 rounds).
How do you make the conferences fair though. I concede that there's not much difference to the current system of playing some teams twice and others once.

I'm not sure what the current system is but I have read that clubs are asked who they want to play twice, but I'm not sure, and even if that is the case I'm not sure of the precise process.

I know form can change from one year to the next but if they are going to have a system of some teams twice, you'd think the fairest system would be based on splitting the comp base on how they finished the previous season. For example 1st and 4th in one side and 2nd and 3rd on the other. And so on.
 
How do you make the conferences fair though. I concede that there's not much difference to the current system of playing some teams twice and others once.
The difference is your direct competition and the pathway everyone takes to progression.

So right now, we compete against 16 other teams, all with entirely different draws, for one of 8 places in the finals. Some draws are harder, some draws are easier.

In a conference system (that’s set up properly with no weird concessions), yes, one conference may have a harder or easier path than you and your conference in any given year, but every team in your conference play exactly the same schedule. In your mini competition it’s a level playing field.

So if we’re competing for a spot in the finals directly against the Roosters, Sharks, Dragons, Dogs, etc, from our conference, we all play the same schedule. That’s an improvement on what we have now.

I’d preference dividing the conferences rationally, using geography or something similar. Like the competition itself, difficulty ebbs and flows.

Wild cards offer some assurance a good team doesn’t get excluded due by being in a particularly hard conference.

It’s not perfect, but it’s more fair than just having every side in the comp play different schedules.

It might not be the best comparison, but take the WCC or the State Championship for reserve grade. We don’t lament that the Aus team that lost the grand final can’t play in the WCC, even though they might be the second best team (I.e better than the English team that won their comp), that’s just the way it’s set up. It would be somewhat the same for conference champs and premiership winners. If you want to progress, there are steps you just have to get past.

100% the best team will still win the comp. Every time. You’ll need to be at the best and if you do, you lift the trophy.

But the pathway towards that outcome is more fair for groups in isolation.

Again, not perfect, but more fair.
 
Maybe the solution lies somewhere in the middle?

Without extremely changing the current structure, simply ensuring relative parity in games between clubs over a number of years would be an improvement.

For example, under the current structure of 17 clubs, a full single round robin has 16 games. That leaves 8 games, possibly 9, to 24-25 game seasons. If the NRL were to, for example, implement a rule that teams must play each other 3 times over 2 seasons and no more than twice in 1 season (excluding Finals and trials), that increases fairness over a given period of 2 seasons. Not perfect but, in my opinion, a material improvement.

A more extreme solution (someone may have already suggested this) might be to run a single round-Robin "preliminary season", then divide the comp into conferences leading into the Finals. Not "fair" in the strict sense but, for example, you could split teams based upon rankings then have cross-conference playoffs. Gets closer to a "fairer", or in this case merit-based, draw while dealing with the league's constraints re: player load and teams.

I think most of us agree that the fairest draw involves a double round robin, home and away, but we acknowledge it's probably not feasible in the NRL. So we need to, from the NRL's perspective, think outside the box and make compromises. Start with improvement before complete overhaul.
 
Ok, do this. Super League 2.0. I'm half serious.

The NRL is now split into two. Everyone takes their records - premierships, spoons, whatever - across to their new competitions.

So, if Souths win the NSWRL Premiership, that's first grade Premiership #22 for us. Etc.

Play everyone in your competition home & away. Play everyone once. Break 3 weeks for Origin and test. Play everyone again. 18 matches. Then a 4 week, top 5 finals.

NSWRL Premiership
Bulldogs
Dragons
Eels
Knights
Panthers
Rabbitohs
Roosters
Sea Eagles
Sharks
Tigers

ARL Premiership
Broncos
Cowboys
Dolphins
Raiders
Storm
Titans
Warriors
---
PNG
NZ 2
Perth


NRL Championship
After a week off, the two combine for the NRL Championship.
Top 5 NSWRL and Top 5 ARL. Seeded on a combined table.

Play a 5 week, Top 10 finals system.

Winner becomes the NRL Champions. Lots of money.

The 10 teams that missed out on the finals of their respective premerships can play some sort of round-robin competition while the finals and NRL championships are on. Prizes can be salary cap relief, money, whatever.

I for one would not miss never playing the Broncos, Storm, etc ever again.
 
Ok, do this. Super League 2.0. I'm half serious.

The NRL is now split into two. Everyone takes their records - premierships, spoons, whatever - across to their new competitions.

So, if Souths win the NSWRL Premiership, that's first grade Premiership #22 for us. Etc.

Play everyone in your competition home & away. Play everyone once. Break 3 weeks for Origin and test. Play everyone again. 18 matches. Then a 4 week, top 5 finals.

NSWRL Premiership
Bulldogs
Dragons
Eels
Knights
Panthers
Rabbitohs
Roosters
Sea Eagles
Sharks
Tigers

ARL Premiership
Broncos
Cowboys
Dolphins
Raiders
Storm
Titans
Warriors
---
PNG
NZ 2
Perth


NRL Championship
After a week off, the two combine for the NRL Championship.
Top 5 NSWRL and Top 5 ARL. Seeded on a combined table.

Play a 5 week, Top 10 finals system.

Winner becomes the NRL Champions. Lots of money.

The 10 teams that missed out on the finals of their respective premerships can play some sort of round-robin competition while the finals and NRL championships are on. Prizes can be salary cap relief, money, whatever.

I for one would not miss never playing the Broncos, Storm, etc ever again.
Zero complaints.

But maybe APACRL Premiership? As it includes NZ and PNG?

Not to get too crazy with it, but do you make the NRL Championship the World Championship and invite some ESL teams over?

I went too far didn’t I? Could be pretty cool.
 
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I’ll add, a NSW only conference helps some of those folks that are angry about less footy. Less home game yes, but 18 games a year within easy travelling distance.
 
Ok, do this. Super League 2.0. I'm half serious.

The NRL is now split into two. Everyone takes their records - premierships, spoons, whatever - across to their new competitions.

So, if Souths win the NSWRL Premiership, that's first grade Premiership #22 for us. Etc.

Play everyone in your competition home & away. Play everyone once. Break 3 weeks for Origin and test. Play everyone again. 18 matches. Then a 4 week, top 5 finals.

NSWRL Premiership
Bulldogs
Dragons
Eels
Knights
Panthers
Rabbitohs
Roosters
Sea Eagles
Sharks
Tigers

ARL Premiership
Broncos
Cowboys
Dolphins
Raiders
Storm
Titans
Warriors
---
PNG
NZ 2
Perth


NRL Championship
After a week off, the two combine for the NRL Championship.
Top 5 NSWRL and Top 5 ARL. Seeded on a combined table.

Play a 5 week, Top 10 finals system.

Winner becomes the NRL Champions. Lots of money.

The 10 teams that missed out on the finals of their respective premerships can play some sort of round-robin competition while the finals and NRL championships are on. Prizes can be salary cap relief, money, whatever.

I for one would not miss never playing the Broncos, Storm, etc ever again.

No objection to that Yob. Only problem would be that a team like us with a national following don’t appear in Brisbane, Goldie, Melbourne or Canberra for, effectively, a whole season
 
There’s some really cool points made by you guys about a different approach to the season.

The only issue I see with the thinking from you guys (the fans) is that the NRL genuinely do not care how many games we can personally get to. Their sole exclusive “vision” is the TV viewership. What makes that better is what will happen. No matter how many games we will, or will not, be able to attend to support our team.
 
The real problem with the current draw as was stated by another poster earlier, is the unfair allocation of the teams you play twice. This, to be fair to the NRL, is to some extent requested by the clubs to increase home attendances and revenues. The solution for me is to fix this and not to go down the conference route.

The reason I don't prefer conferences is because teams can make the semis with less points than a team from another conference (itself totally unfair). There is also the unequal travel aspect although on the plus side,.it may generate more derby type games.

All you need to do is have the current system and equalise, as much as possible, the quality of the teams you play twice across all clubs.

To do this; In a 20 team comp, play everyone once (19 games). For 4 additional games ie season of 23 weeks, have four conferences of five teams each but seed the teams at beginning of year (maybe previous 3 years results).

Put the teams in 5 pots of 4 (Pot 1 = teams 1-4, Pot 2 = teams 5-8, Pot 3 = teams 9-12 etc up to Pot 5 teams 17-20). Then choose one team, randomly from each pot and allocate to a conference. This should equalise (to some extent) the conferences and each club's draw.
 
The real problem with the current draw as was stated by another poster earlier, is the unfair allocation of the teams you play twice. This, to be fair to the NRL, is to some extent requested by the clubs to increase home attendances and revenues. The solution for me is to fix this and not to go down the conference route.

The reason I don't prefer conferences is because teams can make the semis with less points than a team from another conference (itself totally unfair). There is also the unequal travel aspect although on the plus side,.it may generate more derby type games.

All you need to do is have the current system and equalise, as much as possible, the quality of the teams you play twice across all clubs.

To do this; In a 20 team comp, play everyone once (19 games). For 4 additional games ie season of 23 weeks, have four conferences of five teams each but seed the teams at beginning of year (maybe previous 3 years results).

Put the teams in 5 pots of 4 (Pot 1 = teams 1-4, Pot 2 = teams 5-8, Pot 3 = teams 9-12 etc up to Pot 5 teams 17-20). Then choose one team, randomly from each pot and allocate to a conference. This should equalise (to some extent) the conferences and each club's draw.
If you were going to do that why not just seed them after the first 19 rounds are played? Mind you, there’s often a big difference between 1st and 4th when drawing your opponents. Someone will get 4, 8, 12 and 20 one year and scrape into the finals. People will cry fowl that they got an easier run.

The other issue is, it’s specific additional games people want to see played, not random ones. If you aren’t cashing in on rivalry fixtures as the additional, just play everyone once and start finals. Vlandys has said they’re open to a 19 round comp.

I get the fact that you may have a team in one conference qualify in 8th or 10th spot ahead of a team in another conference that won more games.

It’s really just perspective on whether you see that as unfair. If you see the conferences as separate, then it’s fine. It doesn’t matter what happens in the other conference. There are 4 or 5 spots available to you, you need to finish in one of those.

We consider that fair in all sorts of arenas.

The politician that lost a seat in his electorate but got more votes that someone who got in in another electorate doesn’t lament that outcome. You’re in a different race.

It’s the same with conferences. You’re in the race with the teams in your conference for the spaces available. That’s the task. That’s the competition. If you can’t beat the teams in your conference to that goal (who all play the same games as you), then you don’t progress.

It’s irrelevant how many games a team in another conference won, they had a different draw and different competition. That’s the point.

I get your reservations if you don’t see it that way though. Again, it’s never going to be perfect. It’s about what you can achieve that meets the needs of the product given the constraints present.
 
If you were going to do that why not just seed them after the first 19 rounds are played? Mind you, there’s often a big difference between 1st and 4th when drawing your opponents. Someone will get 4, 8, 12 and 20 one year and scrape into the finals. People will cry fowl that they got an easier run.

The other issue is, it’s specific additional games people want to see played, not random ones. If you aren’t cashing in on rivalry fixtures as the additional, just play everyone once and start finals. Vlandys has said they’re open to a 19 round comp.

I get the fact that you may have a team in one conference qualify in 8th or 10th spot ahead of a team in another conference that won more games.

It’s really just perspective on whether you see that as unfair. If you see the conferences as separate, then it’s fine. It doesn’t matter what happens in the other conference. There are 4 or 5 spots available to you, you need to finish in one of those.

We consider that fair in all sorts of arenas.

The politician that lost a seat in his electorate but got more votes that someone who got in in another electorate doesn’t lament that outcome. You’re in a different race.

It’s the same with conferences. You’re in the race with the teams in your conference for the spaces available. That’s the task. That’s the competition. If you can’t beat the teams in your conference to that goal (who all play the same games as you), then you don’t progress.

It’s irrelevant how many games a team in another conference won, they had a different draw and different competition. That’s the point.

I get your reservations if you don’t see it that way though. Again, it’s never going to be perfect. It’s about what you can achieve that meets the needs of the product given the constraints present.
I see your point of view but don't agree.

You could just as easily argue we are all in a current race for 8 spots out of 17, but some teams have an easier draw and an advantage. We see this now as unfair.

Your analogy might be more plausible if the two conferences were always of equal or about equal standard. The splitting of the conferences on its own creates an inequality. For example, we all whinge about the Sharks easy games and saloon passage to the finals. Imagine if that was entrenched with the Sharks playing Tigers, PNG, Perth, NZ2, Knights twice while we play Penrith, Storm, Roosters, Broncos twice. This would be even worse if it was entrenched every year by fixed conferences based on geography or similar.

To take it to an extreme, imagine the two conferences were an NRL standard conference and a NSWRL standard conference. The team that finishes first in the NSWRL standard conference has exactly the same privilege as the team that finishes first in the NRL conference. Teams that miss out on the NRL conference slots will most likely be better than all the teams in the NSWRL conference.

I think in the end, maybe the 19 game season is the only way. Just pragmatically, clubs will want their marquee games and boosted revenues which come with these games. This is why I would add in another 4 weeks based on derby type conferences. I recognise this also has an element of unfairness but the positive would be the extra revenues and interest due to marquee clashes.

Cheers
 
The politician that lost a seat in his electorate but got more votes that someone who got in in another electorate doesn’t lament that outcome. You’re in a different race.

It’s the same with conferences. You’re in the race with the teams in your conference for the spaces available. That’s the task. That’s the competition. If you can’t beat the teams in your conference to that goal (who all play the same games as you), then you don’t progress

Agree with this. If you cant finish in the top 4 of a conference it means your not good enough
 
Here me out.

Play one half of a season and have a mid season break.

During the mid season break they have a woman's beach volley ball tournament for several weeks and some rep rugby league but mostly woman's beach volleyball

Then resume second part of the season.
 

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