I've got a new rash

[JessicaRabbit]

And the majority of Aussies want the date kept the same, if you change it against the will of the majority it will create outrage and animosity , i hope they put it to the vote and settle it once and for all, would you accept it.?

I would accept that vote for the present. . . But not once and for all. Demographics are constantly changing. The marriage equality issue would have had a very different result 20 years ago - even ten. There was a tide of change. If the same has not yet happened in regard to Australia Day, the tide is certainly changing.

 

[JessicaRabbit]

You speak for yourself when saying that, not me or “WE”

No, not for me. For those who think that the British were nice invaders whereas some other nationalities would have been worse. And I suspect many do think that way.

 

[Bluey]

I think after 3 generations or so things have to be let go, others i would be justified in a hatred of Italians, Danish, ect, the Japanese planned to execute everybody over 40 and enslave the rest but here we are friends with Japan now.
And as i said re changing the date, if you do it against the will of the majority you will create massive resentment , i hope they put it to the vote, but will you accept it.
As for " The Voice" i find it inherently racist to give one group of people a bigger say in govt based on race, we all have a voice to govt through our federal member.

Of course they're not going to.

But if Japan had succeeded in invading Australia in WW2 and we were now living under Japanese control would we be happy to celebrate Australia Day on the day they conquered us?

I don't think so.

You can't change history, although you can strive to ameliorate its effects (as you have suggested) but you can change a date. It's very simple.

 

[captainsutto]

No, not for me. For those who think that the British were nice invaders whereas some other nationalities would have been worse. And I suspect many do think that way.

As anti soft has said, “proof please” or are those just your generalisations

I have been fair and balanced here and you played the race card on me. As if you know what I think of Napoleon, Khan or the Danes, Norwegians or Swedes FFS.

 

[Gerg]

Personally I find it impossible to demand todays ethics are placed on anyone from 10 years ago let alone 30, 80, 200 or 2000

There was vocal opposition to the way Indigenous folks were treated in the 19th century: for instance the outcry about the Myall Creek massacre. There have always been voices arguing for fairness and respect - this is not a recent trend at all.

 

[daRque]

The govt is more than generous in providing homes and welfare to aboriginal people, something that was often banter from aboriginal workmates , Alice Springs has a 20% aboriginal population where do you think they live?, in homes mostly provided by govt.

This is from a Govt website. https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/housing/aboriginal-housing/overview

How long will I wait for housing?​

When you apply for social housing we will let you know how long the wait is in the area of your preferred location. The time you wait depends on such things as:

• the number of properties becoming available as others leave
• the number of people who’ve been waiting longer than you
• the number of people who are approved for priority housing or priority transfer, as they will be housed ahead of others.

So clearly assignment of public housing does not include any special urgency for Aboriginals, the above is from a site about Aboriginal housing. And as we know, it can take years to be given public housing.

So let's say a young indigenous couple with one or two kids move into an area because one of them is offered a job there.

They have to apply for public housing, which is not guaranteed as they would be working, plus factor in a potential wait time of who knows how long?

They can't afford to purchase, and 90% of racist landlords won't rent to them according to you, so what do they do? Where do they live until, if they are lucky, they are assigned to social housing? Do they live under a bridge with a couple of kids?

What do you suggest they do?

This a perfect example of how the bias previously discussed impacts the indigenous.

 

[captainsutto]

There was vocal opposition to the way Indigenous folks were treated in the 19th century: for instance the outcry about the Myall Creek massacre. There have always been voices arguing for fairness and respect - this is not a recent trend at all.

I agree Greg, But that’s not what I said

 

[Bluey]

This is getting boring, but lets be real, if a decent aboriginal family is denied housing based on the behavior of other aboriginal actions in housing then yes its sad but its the reality and what actually happens in life, ever been to Moree , Bourke, Darwin, Alice Springs?, houses do get destroyed.
This is just what it is.

This is from a Govt website. https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/housing/aboriginal-housing/overview

How long will I wait for housing?​

When you apply for social housing we will let you know how long the wait is in the area of your preferred location. The time you wait depends on such things as:

• the number of properties becoming available as others leave
• the number of people who’ve been waiting longer than you
• the number of people who are approved for priority housing or priority transfer, as they will be housed ahead of others.

So clearly assignment of public housing does not include any special urgency for Aboriginals, the above is from a site about Aboriginal housing. And as we know, it can take years to be given public housing.

So let's say a young indigenous couple with one or two kids move into an area because one of them is offered a job there.

They have to apply for public housing, which is not guaranteed as they would be working, plus factor in a potential wait time of who knows how long?

They can't afford to purchase, and 90% of racist landlords won't rent to them according to you, so what do they do? Where do they live until, if they are lucky, they are assigned to social housing? Do they live under a bridge with a couple of kids?

What do you suggest they do?

This a perfect example of how the bias previously discussed impacts the indigenous.

 

[daRque]

This is getting boring, but lets be real, if a decent aboriginal family is denied housing based on the behavior of other aboriginal actions in housing then yes its sad but its the reality and what actually happens in life, ever been to Moree , Bourke, Darwin, Alice Springs?, houses do get destroyed.
This is just what it is.

So you don't have an answer when confronted with facts. Fair enough.

 

[JessicaRabbit]

As anti soft has said, “proof please” or are those just your generalisations

I have been fair and balanced here and you played the race card on me. As if you know what I think of Napoleon, Khan or the Danes, Norwegians or Swedes FFS.

Played the race card when discussing a race-related issue????

I said 'I suspect'. We're all guessing. Nobody has up-to-date January 2023 data and what Australians think about anything.

At no point did I allege that 'you' thought anything.

You really are scrabbling hard to defend the indefensible.

 

[captainsutto]

For what’s it’s worth, I have an investment property, managed by LJ Hooker, in QLD.

had 2 tenants in 6 years. The current one is on a disability pension and lives with his mum.
No idea what their race is.

My only concern is their source of income and past rental history.

 

[Gerg]

I agree Greg, But that’s not what I said

But I'm suggesting that ethics and attitudes today were not absent 50, 100, 200 years ago. People were using attitudes we in part share today (though more prevalently held) in the past as well, and judged government and individual actions according to them.

So I'd be inclined to think we can judge past actions according to contemporaneous ideas and attitudes, which were by no means homogenous, and often have more in common with present day thinking than we might recognise.

 

[captainsutto]

We tend to choose the ethics that suit us. British Imperialism was acceptable; Genghis Khan's was not. Napoleon wasn't too bad because he was white like us.

Your words, that you want to impart on “WE” or me, as you did in direct response to my comment

find one post of mine where I have imparted or implied colour in my comments . Go ahead, twist yourself in knots.

we know that You are implying that Khan was coloured. where are “coloured invaders” criticised in anything I said, let alone Whitie Napoleon ?

 

[Bluey]

Take an Aussie family living in Alice Springs or Tennant Creek, they own a rental , are they racist if they prefer not to rent to an aboriginal or are they making a decision on what they know and see , if an aboriginal can't find a private home to rent perhaps the fault lies with those that destroy homed they get and not with the landlord not wanting to end up out of pocket , you are virtue signalling, get a few bucks a go buy a rental home in Moree and then give us a report 2 years later, all good for you to point fingers and stand on you pedestal you have not been a victim to having your rental wrecked.

So you don't have an answer when confronted with facts. Fair enough.

 

[captainsutto]

But I'm suggesting that ethics and attitudes today were not absent 50, 100, 200 years ago. People were using attitudes we in part share today (though more prevalently held) in the past as well, and judged government and individual actions according to them.

So I'd be inclined to think we can judge past actions according to contemporaneous ideas and attitudes, which were by no means homogenous, and often have more in common with present day thinking than we might recognise.

As I said, I agree. We can study and learn. Mostly we have.

Overwhelmingly we are better as a species but to constantly go back into the distant past and those barbaric times and weaponise them today, in my mind, is the wrong approach.

Frankly, the date of Australia day and the actions of the past won’t solve the problems facing troubled communities Alice Springs or Cherbourg.
The issues facing some communities are certainly starkly different to what many deal with.

to lump it all in one big basket is dumb in my mind. So many aboriginals live very ”prosperous“ lives.
What Stan Grant or Warren Mundine etc need is certainly different to what those poor kids and wives in in the outback regions.