Climate Change

[southsport]

Hi all,

A friendly reminder to please keep discussions civil. I am all for some lively (and heated debate), so I won't be closing the thread (yet) but please be respectful and remember to not devolve into personal attacks.

We are all read and green at the end of the day, despite differences of opinion elsewhere.

Cheers,
J

It's very hard for Mega not to get personal, he was trolling when he started this thread.
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[MegaRabbitoh]

I started this thread with a proper title because in the previous forum, a certain anti-science troll gave this same subject a very trolly title so I wanted to get in early with a respectful title giving no indication of any politicking. Just the subject "Climate Change". Now, with all the devastation around, more trolling as usual trying to deny the undeniable.

I am happy for intelligent discussion and opinions of all kinds but if you can't handle your opinion being opposed, then don't join the discussion just to sabotage it. Have whatever opinion you like. Just because my opinion differs and I knock your opinion, it is wrong to claim that somehow means I am preventing anyone from having an opinion. That's nonsense. I have a different opinion - it's cry baby nonsense to whine that I don't let other people have an opinion. Please lift the quality of the posts as the mods have urged.

That doesn't mean we can't disagree and it doesn't mean we can't criticise the quality of the opinion because that too is an opinion. Crying that someone wont let others have an opinion is not only dishonest but also hypocritical. Share your opinions by all means - I invite that and guess, what? So will I. But don't go making cry baby bogus accusations to obviously try to shut down my right to express my opinions. What rot! LOL!

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

View attachment 37

Well, he got that one wrong in terms of predicting it will happen that quickly but you're still clutching at straws scrounging for the odd prediction that is not totally correct. 99% of all scientists now agree unequivocally that anthropogenic climate change is fact. Not opinion, fact. That's what science is. It's the establishment of facts over time to the point that there is no longer any doubt. Think the laws of physics as we know them today. They're not a matter of opinion nor are mathematical equations. Trying to treat science as though it's politics is very misguided, sometimes amusing but also tiresome too.

 

[southsport]

Well, he got that one wrong in terms of predicting it will happen that quickly but you're still clutching at straws scrounging for the odd prediction that is not totally correct. 99% of all scientists now agree unequivocally that anthropogenic climate change is fact. Not opinion, fact. That's what science is. It's the establishment of facts over time to the point that there is no longer any doubt. Think the laws of physics as we know them today. They're not a matter of opinion nor are mathematical equations. Trying to treat science as though it's politics is very misguided, sometimes amusing but also tiresome too.

There are some other facts, in earth's history back when we went from the last ice-age into a warm period even though there was no coal fired power generation and even historical reports of Greek sailors being able to sail through the Black sea into the Caspian sea all the way to Afghanistan because the sea levels were so much higher at the time (impossible today due to low sea levels). Of course we can also look at the rock art in the Sahara desert which depicts a time of lush forest and bountiful wildlife until the climate changed (there was no coal-fired power generation back then either)

The power of Saharan rock art - World Archaeology

Creating images in a changing world Today, it seems hard to imagine that the Sahara was once populated by people with large herds of domestic cattle. While the grasslands and lakes that were so important to these communities may be long gone, the images they etched onto stone still survive. This...

www.world-archaeology.com

fossilised sahara trees - Google Search

www.google.com

 

[southsport]

There are some other facts, in earth's history back when we went from the last ice-age into a warm period even though there was no coal fired power generation and even historical reports of Greek sailors being able to sail through the Black sea into the Caspian sea all the way to Afghanistan because the sea levels were so much higher at the time (impossible today due to low sea levels). Of course we can also look at the rock art in the Sahara desert which depicts a time of lush forest and bountiful wildlife until the climate changed (there was no coal-fired power generation back then either)

The power of Saharan rock art - World Archaeology

Creating images in a changing world Today, it seems hard to imagine that the Sahara was once populated by people with large herds of domestic cattle. While the grasslands and lakes that were so important to these communities may be long gone, the images they etched onto stone still survive. This...

www.world-archaeology.com

fossilised sahara trees - Google Search

www.google.com

Of course this is not to say that we can't do things better but as australia's emissions are quite small overall no matter what we do we will not make a major difference if indeed we make a difference at all so a measured approach to reducing emissions is most likely the best way to proceed.
.

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

Of course this is not to say that we can't do things better but as australia's emissions are quite small overall no matter what we do we will not make a major difference if indeed we make a difference at all so a measured approach to reducing emissions is most likely the best way to proceed.
.

I find that sort of reasoning very small-town minded. Australia is part of the globe and it is global warming that is the concern. Plus we are a major exporter of coal and gas...

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

There are some other facts, in earth's history back when we went from the last ice-age into a warm period even though there was no coal fired power generation and even historical reports of Greek sailors being able to sail through the Black sea into the Caspian sea all the way to Afghanistan because the sea levels were so much higher at the time (impossible today due to low sea levels). Of course we can also look at the rock art in the Sahara desert which depicts a time of lush forest and bountiful wildlife until the climate changed (there was no coal-fired power generation back then either)

The power of Saharan rock art - World Archaeology

Creating images in a changing world Today, it seems hard to imagine that the Sahara was once populated by people with large herds of domestic cattle. While the grasslands and lakes that were so important to these communities may be long gone, the images they etched onto stone still survive. This...

www.world-archaeology.com

fossilised sahara trees - Google Search

www.google.com

Alternative facts. Where have I heard that before? .... Are you trying to be a scientist again?

They have covered everything. They haven't missed natural changes in earth's history. It is scientifically proven that global warming today is growing out of proportion in term of rate to any time in history and they have scientific proof it is due to fossil fuels. FACT.

 

[southsport]

Alternative facts. Where have I heard that before? .... Are you trying to be a scientist again?

They have covered everything. They haven't missed natural changes in earth's history. It is scientifically proven that global warming today is growing out of proportion in term of rate to any time in history and they have scientific proof it is due to fossil fuels. FACT.

Then why do the people who are so worried about climate change then go and jump on an aircraft to go on holidays? Didn't they see Greta Thunberg sail across the Atlantic ocean so that she didn't add to the emissions problem? Jet aircraft spew out tons of CO2 so shouldn't something be done about that as well?.......you are passionate about this subject Mega so surely you don't fly on jet aircraft do you?
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[MegaRabbitoh]

Then why do the people who are so worried about climate change then go and jump on an aircraft to go on holidays? Didn't they see Greta Thunberg sail across the Atlantic ocean so that she didn't add to the emissions problem? Jet aircraft spew out tons of CO2 so shouldn't something be done about that as well?.......you are passionate about this subject Mega so surely you don't fly on jet aircraft do you?
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Everybody could do more and not everybody is as committed and pure as sweet Greta and while I rarely fly, I still do because I am no sailor but otherwise try to reduce my carbon footprint wherever practicable. But that is another kettle of fish altogether. I thought we weren't getting personal? Point is, you and I are both unqualified to go up against actual scientists and world science overall. So is that ideological hatchet man that you've been quoting.

Anyway, enough of this. It is a waste of time debating endlessly - you'll never see reason and it's not about you anyway.

Good night.

 

[southsport]

Everybody could do more and not everybody is as committed and pure as sweet Greta and while I rarely fly, I still do because I am no sailor but otherwise try to reduce my carbon footprint wherever practicable. But that is another kettle of fish altogether. I thought we weren't getting personal? Point is, you and I are both unqualified to go up against actual scientists and world science overall. So is that ideological hatchet man that you've been quoting.

Anyway, enough of this. It is a waste of time debating endlessly - you'll never see reason and it's not about you anyway.

Good night.

I like this scientist.

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

I like this scientist.

Of course you do. You apparently like scientist shopping, quackery and gish gallop. Just keep repeating yourself as many times as you like. It doesn't mean you have dementia... necessarily ...

Ian Plimer - SourceWatch

www.sourcewatch.org

My favourite bit -

Debate with George Monbiot - "Gish gallop"​

After the publication of his book met with harsh criticism from The Guardian's George Monbiot, who derided the book, saying that "Since its publication in Australia it has been ridiculed for a hilarious series of schoolboy errors, and its fudging and manipulation of the data",[30] Plimer challenged Monbiot to a public debate on the issues covered in the book. Monbiot responded by insisting that Plimer, who is known for his "Gish Gallop"[31] approach to debates (a rapid-fire presentation of arguments and changing topics very quickly),[32] first answer a series of written questions for publication on the Guardian's website.[33] Plimer refused and Monbiot labelled Plimer a "grandstander" with a "broad yellow streak" who has never answered the accusations of serious errors in his Heaven and Earth book, and accused him of trying to "drown out the precise refutations published by his book's reviewers".[34] Plimer then reversed his decision, and agreed to answer written questions in return for a live debate.[35] However, instead of the expected answers, he sent a series of questions to Monbiot.[36][37][38] Negotiations with Plimer for a face-to-face debate eventually broke down and no debate was held.[39][40]

The two did eventually cross swords on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation program Lateline in December, 2009.[41] After the debate, Monbiot published an article in The Guardian summarising the debate and stated that Plimer had been "soundly thrashed".[42] The video shows Plimer obfuscating, refusing to answer questions, and clearly discomforted when his erroneous scientific statements about global warming were directly challenged.

Peter Jackson of the Canadian paper, The Telegram, summarised the debate so: "For Plimer, it was an unmitigated disaster. He fudged and distracted at every turn like a senile old goat. In the end, he refused to answer a single question put to him by Monbiot or the moderator. His credibility - and that of his book - withered away into oblivion."[43]


p.s.

Conflicts of interest​

Plimer is a director of seven mining companies

 

[southsport]

Of course you do. You apparently like scientist shopping, quackery and gish gallop. Just keep repeating yourself as many times as you like. It doesn't mean you have dementia... necessarily ...

Ian Plimer - SourceWatch

www.sourcewatch.org

My favourite bit -

Debate with George Monbiot - "Gish gallop"​

After the publication of his book met with harsh criticism from The Guardian's George Monbiot, who derided the book, saying that "Since its publication in Australia it has been ridiculed for a hilarious series of schoolboy errors, and its fudging and manipulation of the data",[30] Plimer challenged Monbiot to a public debate on the issues covered in the book. Monbiot responded by insisting that Plimer, who is known for his "Gish Gallop"[31] approach to debates (a rapid-fire presentation of arguments and changing topics very quickly),[32] first answer a series of written questions for publication on the Guardian's website.[33] Plimer refused and Monbiot labelled Plimer a "grandstander" with a "broad yellow streak" who has never answered the accusations of serious errors in his Heaven and Earth book, and accused him of trying to "drown out the precise refutations published by his book's reviewers".[34] Plimer then reversed his decision, and agreed to answer written questions in return for a live debate.[35] However, instead of the expected answers, he sent a series of questions to Monbiot.[36][37][38] Negotiations with Plimer for a face-to-face debate eventually broke down and no debate was held.[39][40]

The two did eventually cross swords on the Australian Broadcasting Corporation program Lateline in December, 2009.[41] After the debate, Monbiot published an article in The Guardian summarising the debate and stated that Plimer had been "soundly thrashed".[42] The video shows Plimer obfuscating, refusing to answer questions, and clearly discomforted when his erroneous scientific statements about global warming were directly challenged.

Peter Jackson of the Canadian paper, The Telegram, summarised the debate so: "For Plimer, it was an unmitigated disaster. He fudged and distracted at every turn like a senile old goat. In the end, he refused to answer a single question put to him by Monbiot or the moderator. His credibility - and that of his book - withered away into oblivion."[43]


p.s.

Conflicts of interest​

Plimer is a director of seven mining companies

You quote from the guardian!!!



Mining royalties is what pays for our services and healthcare, without that australia would be stuffed.

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

You quote from the guardian!!!


Mining royalties is what pays for our services and healthcare, without that australia would be stuffed.

Conflicts of interest was the key point sport! Was the font not large or bold enough for you?

 

[WB]

Boys play nice, please.

 

[southsport]

Conflicts of interest was the key point sport! Was the font not large or bold enough for you?

Mega, mining is the lifeblood of this country, we'd end up like Sri Lanka if we took the advice of those you say are in the know.