I've got a new rash

[Prowsey]

I’ve been staying out of this debate, because there is no hope in changing entrenched racism built up over a lifetime, if the person won’t even accept that they are racist to begin with.

There are posters on here who believe that the First Nations peoples - who they see as not much more than savages - have gained so much from colonisation intellectually, culturally and financially…that the massacres, enslavement, genocide and forced removals was a small price to pay.

I was hoping that this empiralist superiority would’ve ameliorated by now based on the overwhelming evidence to the contrary…but who am I kidding.

This debate was initially about changing the date to be more inclusive of all Australians. There are literally millions of Australians that have no affiliation with the British Empire and the 26th January is a public holiday without meaning…and I’m not talking about the indigenous here.

I want an Australia Day that I can be proud of and to celebrate the Australia I am proud of.

I didn’t take the public holiday on the 26th. I chose to work. And there were significant numbers of people who did the same.

The referendum will be held in August and when it passes - and I believe it will be successful - that date would make a great public holiday to celebrate all Australians.

And I think we can all agree on this…There’s not enough public holidays in the back half of the year…having a holiday in August breaks the long drought!

 

[captainsutto]

There are posters on here who believe that the First Nations peoples - who they see as not much more than savages - have gained so much from colonisation intellectually, culturally and financially…that the massacres, enslavement, genocide and forced removals was a small price to pay.

Wow, I’ve seen none of that but you are right about it being a pointless discussion………in many ways

 

[Prowsey]

Yes mixed marriages later on but in the early 1900s late 1800s the tribes didnt take too kindly to little half caste kids.

This is a complete myth. Like just about everything else you’ve posted.

I really have tried not to respond to you directly, as we are on diametrically opposite sides of this debate.

And frankly your extreme right wing views are an anathema to me.

But I had to draw the line at this. This “half caste” bullshit was spread about by white colonialists to justify their stealing children who didn’t look black enough away from their families.

 

[Prowsey]

This is the argument that always perplexes me: "stop pointing to issues long past."

ANZAC Day was 1915.
Armistice Day was 1918.
The Coniston Massacre was 1928.

Are we supposed to forget about 1928 because it is "long past"? But commemorate ANZAC Day and Armistice/Remembrance Day? Aren't they "issues long past"?

Kids were removed within the lifetime of many posters on here (certainly mine). Are we supposed to forget about that and the horrendous effects on their families because it's "long past"?

Well said.

In my lifetime indigineous people were counted as flora and fauna.

They were removed from their families.

They were put onto and forced to live on missions.

They are still not recognised in the constitution.

They are subjected to some of the most appalling and trenchant racism and paternalism - witness here.

This is not the distant past…this is now.

 

[Prowsey]

Wow, I’ve seen none of that but you are right about it being a pointless discussion………in many ways

Maybe read some of the posts again…

 

[Prowsey]

Excellent comment. There should be one law for all and the law is applied without fear or favour to ALL people regardless of race ,creed sex or anything else.

Yes, but this doesn’t happen.

There has been study after study demonstrating the implicit bias in policing towards non-white people, in Australia, UK and the US at the very least.

The white kid who is out on the streets creating mischief who gets a warning, or is ignored altogether, whereas a non-white kid is harassed, beaten, locked up or all three (and not just indigineous).

Everybody has intrinsic biases that they’re not aware of.

Education and having people of that community in the police forces / judicial system more broadly has limited impact (witness the horrendous beating in Memphis delivered by black officers).

Until people can embrace difference, rather than be afraid of it, there will be unequal outcomes in our judicial system.

 

[captainsutto]

There isnt a race in the world that doesn’t practice racism from my travelling experience.
I believe Australians,regardless of their heritage, are better than other nations.
Of course we aren’t perfect but that will never be achieved.

it’s a shame to see us abusing each other. It seems to be a national pastime to turn on each other

 

[chelseabree]

Yes, but this doesn’t happen.

There has been study after study demonstrating the implicit bias in policing towards non-white people, in Australia, UK and the US at the very least.

The white kid who is out on the streets creating mischief who gets a warning, or is ignored altogether, whereas a non-white kid is harassed, beaten, locked up or all three (and not just indigineous).

Everybody has intrinsic biases that they’re not aware of.

Education and having people of that community in the police forces / judicial system more broadly has limited impact (witness the horrendous beating in Memphis delivered by black officers).

Until people can embrace difference, rather than be afraid of it, there will be unequal outcomes in our judicial system.

I was watching a show on the police in action. One group-Raptor Squad - turned up at a 1% fortress, and it was a fortress, used ankle grinders to break in and took EVERYTHING- maximum intimidation of the bikie gangs- no regrets. They had white supremacist material on the wall like Confederate flags.
Another group followed two people - a man and a girl- driving around delivering drugs to people on the North Shore. Deliberately waited until they were in the middle of the main street in a suburb in the North Shore and the Police literally attacked the car the drug runners were in , dragged them out and threw them on the ground with maximum intimidation and cuffed them in full view of the public while they casually searched the car. No excuses - designed to send a strong message. They were white. The police targets on the North Shore for drug usage are mostly white.
I absolutely agree that there should be no bias at all. Laws apply equally to ALL citizens. It breaks my heart to see kids on the street at nightime and not preparing to get ready to go to school and learn so they can get a good job. So what is the solution in Alice and lots of other towns around Australia?
I suppose the best example I can give is us. People should be treated exactly the same regardless of whatever they are. US? We are South Sydney. When picking a team for this years Grand Final who do we choose? 'Oh we don't choose him because he is an aboriginal OR we must choose him because he is aboriginal.' Does this conversation pass JD's lips. No. The team is chosen on form and form alone. I don't give a stuff what colour their skin is. I just want to win the premiership.
If Murray ( white) is out form I will be first in line to say he is out of the team. If Latrell ( Aboriginal) is out of form I will be first in line to say he is out of the team.

 

[Bluey]

Either way it's history long past, and who cares what you think, I posted honest comment shared by a great many people , your virtue signalling outrage means nothing , want to know the honest truth , go onto

This is a complete myth. Like just about everything else you’ve posted.

I really have tried not to respond to you directly, as we are on diametrically opposite sides of this debate.

And frankly your extreme right wing views are an anathema to me.

But I had to draw the line at this. This “half caste” bullshit was spread about by white colonialists to justify their stealing children who didn’t look black enough away from their families.

an Australian investment forum and put up a post asking how many would rent a home to an aboriginal they didn't know personally .

 

[Bluey]

How awful white people must be , why is it then that coloured people go to extreme lengths to get into majority white countries? Shouldn't it be the other way around ?. I think they call what you have as " Self Loathing" .

This is a complete myth. Like just about everything else you’ve posted.

I really have tried not to respond to you directly, as we are on diametrically opposite sides of this debate.

And frankly your extreme right wing views are an anathema to me.

But I had to draw the line at this. This “half caste” bullshit was spread about by white colonialists to justify their stealing children who didn’t look black enough away from their families.

Yes, but this doesn’t happen.

There has been study after study demonstrating the implicit bias in policing towards non-white people, in Australia, UK and the US at the very least.

The white kid who is out on the streets creating mischief who gets a warning, or is ignored altogether, whereas a non-white kid is harassed, beaten, locked up or all three (and not just indigineous).

Everybody has intrinsic biases that they’re not aware of.

Education and having people of that community in the police forces / judicial system more broadly has limited impact (witness the horrendous beating in Memphis delivered by black officers).

Until people can embrace difference, rather than be afraid of it, there will be unequal outcomes in our judicial system.

 

[captainsutto]

So what is the solution in Alice and lots of other towns around Australia?

A question I’ve asked many times here without any response
Unfortunately, given the mindset of many, nothing will work. The welfare card is the perfect example of selfish agendas being the more important motives.

As much as mega May not like terms like “virtue signalling” or “wokeness” the sentiment at the core is the same. It will destroy any genuine attempts to fix the problems.

one thing I do know for sure. Parents putting signs in their 6 or 7 year old childrens hands, blazing out cries of war , genocide etc will not help those poor kids or others and will only breed more years of hatred

 

[Bluey]

Exactly, more should be done to promote unity rather than division, that is why i am against " the voice" how can we see each other as one people when a section of our community is separated by race to get a special forum for requests of government , my wife has told me shocking stories of indigenous kids spitting at police and abusing them with racial hatred, what hope for their future or any child coerced to hate, look where we are, 2023 and Alice is a war zone, Townsville is a paradise for child car thieves who joy ride then get caught and let out the same day, how about some positive direction for these kids instead of preaching hate and telling them we are the cause of all their problems.
As for " culture" being a big issue, it may surprise some to realize the English and their descendants have a culture that goes back many thousands of years as well..

A question I’ve asked many times here without any response
Unfortunately, given the mindset of many, nothing will work. The welfare card is the perfect example of selfish agendas being the more important motives.

As much as mega May not like terms like “virtue signalling” or “wokeness” the sentiment at the core is the same. It will destroy any genuine attempts to fix the problems.

one thing I do know for sure. Parents putting signs in their 6 or 7 year old childrens hands, blazing out cries of war , genocide etc will not help those poor kids or others and will only breed more years of hatred

 

[andyrabbit]

I was watching a show on the police in action. One group-Raptor Squad - turned up at a 1% fortress, and it was a fortress, used ankle grinders to break in and took EVERYTHING- maximum intimidation of the bikie gangs- no regrets. They had white supremacist material on the wall like Confederate flags.
Another group followed two people - a man and a girl- driving around delivering drugs to people on the North Shore. Deliberately waited until they were in the middle of the main street in a suburb in the North Shore and the Police literally attacked the car the drug runners were in , dragged them out and threw them on the ground with maximum intimidation and cuffed them in full view of the public while they casually searched the car. No excuses - designed to send a strong message. They were white. The police targets on the North Shore for drug usage are mostly white.
I absolutely agree that there should be no bias at all. Laws apply equally to ALL citizens. It breaks my heart to see kids on the street at nightime and not preparing to get ready to go to school and learn so they can get a good job. So what is the solution in Alice and lots of other towns around Australia?
I suppose the best example I can give is us. People should be treated exactly the same regardless of whatever they are. US? We are South Sydney. When picking a team for this years Grand Final who do we choose? 'Oh we don't choose him because he is an aboriginal OR we must choose him because he is aboriginal.' Does this conversation pass JD's lips. No. The team is chosen on form and form alone. I don't give a stuff what colour their skin is. I just want to win the premiership.
If Murray ( white) is out form I will be first in line to say he is out of the team. If Latrell ( Aboriginal) is out of form I will be first in line to say he is out of the team.

I don't see how those examples are relevant at all. Police doing policing.

I studied crime stats in the eighties and there were many examples of indigenous communities being over policed, charged and incarcerated at much greater rates than non indigenous. One paper I remember was about aboriginal youths in WA where it was shown that at every contact with the system they were treated in a more harsh way than whites. More likely to come to police attention, more likely to be charged, more likely to receive harsher sentences, more likely to be jailed. This is extremely well documented, and has been going on for generations.

 

[Bluey]

Its never a good outcome to have one group over represented in our jail system, but you have to feel for the residents of those troubled towns, Townsville has a massive problem with youths stealing cars then ripping around letting the police chase them, as they are young they are often back on the streets in no time, who wants their family out on the road driving when a drunk 15year old is ripping around in a stolen car, same for break and enters, who would want to run a business in Alice Springs, smashed windows and break ins, the town was once a tourist mecca, when people start to leave the town will die.
A few years ago on a road trip we had planed to stay a night in Moree on our way back from the high country Snowy region but we cancelled our booking, the town was like it had been at war, boarded up shops ect.
So much is made of Aboriginal incarceration but honestly you dont get that spot in front of the judge for nothing.

I don't see how those examples are relevant at all. Police doing policing.

I studied crime stats in the eighties and there were many examples of indigenous communities being over policed, charged and incarcerated at much greater rates than non indigenous. One paper I remember was about aboriginal youths in WA where it was shown that at every contact with the system they were treated in a more harsh way than whites. More likely to come to police attention, more likely to be charged, more likely to receive harsher sentences, more likely to be jailed. This is extremely well documented, and has been going on for generations.

 

[chelseabree]

I don't see how those examples are relevant at all. Police doing policing.

I studied crime stats in the eighties and there were many examples of indigenous communities being over policed, charged and incarcerated at much greater rates than non indigenous. One paper I remember was about aboriginal youths in WA where it was shown that at every contact with the system they were treated in a more harsh way than whites. More likely to come to police attention, more likely to be charged, more likely to receive harsher sentences, more likely to be jailed. This is extremely well documented, and has been going on for generations.

Exactly- it is police doing policing. No problem. You have a paper that claims Indigenous youths are treated worse than whites. If that is the case then that is horrible and should be stopped. Laws should apply equally to ALL citizens regardless of race , creed or gender- or anything else. What I am asking is do you think that a similar group should go to Alice and apply the same methods to discourage crime from ANY person? Should a zero tolerance policy similar to the treatment of the 1% or drug dealers on the North Shore, as I mentioned, be applied in the Alice so that ALL citizens feel safe to go out at night?