I've got a new rash

[Gerg]

The point is we are all Australian and all equal, and yes its generalizing re health and education mostly because of different situations re isolated communities but that is true for every race living in remote areas, graziers, shearers, musterers ect , and i dont pretend to know what any race do as you say , so the bias, please explain, the budget for the aboriginal community in this country amounts to around 30 billion last time i saw it or around 60k a year for every man woman and child, so can you politely explain your view of bias..

Hi.

Let's look at this $30 billion figure. Like lots of numbers, we need to look a bit more closely and see what it really means. So, there's this:

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia?

Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, told Q&A that $30 billion is spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia. Is that right?

theconversation.com

In theory, we are all equal. Theoretically, we're all subject the same laws. How do you think this plays out in reality?

Is education a level playing field? Health? Employment opportunities just for whitefellas vary wildly depending on educational and health outcomes, disability and place of residence. These outcomes depend in some large part to accident of birth: were parents well-educated, sufficiently affluent, without major health (mental and otherwise) issues? Are we all equal? Really?

Add to this inequality the effects of, say, colonisation. We all know what these are: dispossession, disease, marginalisation, murder, generation after generation of child removal. Government and institutional policies and practices that deliberately either exclude you if you're Indigenous, or assumed your inevitable extinction, or criminalise your identity (language, cultural practices) and literally exclude you from employment and participation in wider society.

Even down to the names of streets: if there's a Boundary Street in your town or suburb, folks, that's where our fellow Australians were not permitted to enter if they were Indigenous.

All these actions only amplify each other, creating difficulty and marginalisation and mental health and health and educational problems some find difficult to imagine or empathise with.

Do you think this doesn't have an effect on people? Is this the kind of disadvantage you can just put behind you, as an individual?

This isn't what I imagine a picture of what things look like if "we are all Australian and all equal".

Cheers

 

[captainsutto]

Bias is assuming an entire race do everything identical in relation to education, employment etc.

Bias is assuming "they' all live in remote/regional areas while ignoring the populations of places like LaPa and Redfern and the rate of teen indigenous homelessness in these areas.

Ive actually been discussing this today with a good mate who’s very much involved with the ”community “ via the goal system.
The bias you refer to is very much entrenched in the aboriginal community as well.
Hence the recent discussions that have focused on the communities away from the cities.
the needs of those in remote areas like the welfare card precincts and the Alice etc are different to what Stan Grant, Lydia Thorpe, Greg Inglis Warren Mundine & those of LaPa need

 

[PA]

How's this thread coming along?

 

[chelseabree]

Ive actually been discussing this today with a good mate who’s very much involved with the ”community “ via the goal system.
The bias you refer to is very much entrenched in the aboriginal community as well.
Hence the recent discussions that have focused on the communities away from the cities.
the needs of those in remote areas like the welfare card precincts and the Alice etc are different to what Stan Grant, Lydia Thorpe, Greg Inglis Warren Mundine & those of LaPa need

Very true. It was interesting watching 'The Australian Wars'. When the British arrived in 1788 they made the assumption that when they landed in Port Jackson they were taking the WHOLE country as if it was one complete package. What they did not check or really care about was that Australia was never an aboriginal nation but a collection of about 500 separate nations- like say Germany had Goths, Visigoths, Huns, Vandals, etc.. Technically speaking the British in 1788 invaded the nation of Eora.
Philip made a treaty with the FN people in Manly and then blithly assumed he had made a treaty with ALL the Aboriginals so he expected peace when he went to Parramatta. Bennnalong tried to tell him 'No that is a different nation' but he did not listen and then there was a war.
One of the concerns that some people have brought up with The Voice is you have how do you construct a group that will properly represent all FN people -all over Australia? Will the Voice be weighted towards having more members from a particular place, for example, Inner city Sydney?

 

[Bluey]

Fair bit of hand wringing there , our indigenous could go a long way to help themselves, alcohol abuse domestic violence, child abuse and neglect, then there is crime, i cant see the merit in anybody using Colonisation as a reason in 2023, same to taking children away from parents, there are many children out there left with parents right now that would be much better off if they were removed, so to be honest do we carry on looking back at things from hundreds of years ago or move on, if we dont move on in 100 years things will just be the same.

Hi.

Let's look at this $30 billion figure. Like lots of numbers, we need to look a bit more closely and see what it really means. So, there's this:

FactCheck Q&A: is $30 billion spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia?

Chair of the Prime Minister’s Indigenous Advisory Council, Warren Mundine, told Q&A that $30 billion is spent every year on 500,000 Indigenous people in Australia. Is that right?

theconversation.com

In theory, we are all equal. Theoretically, we're all subject the same laws. How do you think this plays out in reality?

Is education a level playing field? Health? Employment opportunities just for whitefellas vary wildly depending on educational and health outcomes, disability and place of residence. These outcomes depend in some large part to accident of birth: were parents well-educated, sufficiently affluent, without major health (mental and otherwise) issues? Are we all equal? Really?

Add to this inequality the effects of, say, colonisation. We all know what these are: dispossession, disease, marginalisation, murder, generation after generation of child removal. Government and institutional policies and practices that deliberately either exclude you if you're Indigenous, or assumed your inevitable extinction, or criminalise your identity (language, cultural practices) and literally exclude you from employment and participation in wider society.

Even down to the names of streets: if there's a Boundary Street in your town or suburb, folks, that's where our fellow Australians were not permitted to enter if they were Indigenous.

All these actions only amplify each other, creating difficulty and marginalisation and mental health and health and educational problems some find difficult to imagine or empathise with.

Do you think this doesn't have an effect on people? Is this the kind of disadvantage you can just put behind you, as an individual?

This isn't what I imagine a picture of what things look like if "we are all Australian and all equal".

Cheers

 

[Bluey]

Oooh its a tad warm, lots of back slapping woke feel good stuff but i am trying to keep it balanced..

How's this thread coming along?

 

[Gerg]

Fair bit of hand wringing there , our indigenous could go a long way to help themselves, alcohol abuse domestic violence, child abuse and neglect, then there is crime, i cant see the merit in anybody using Colonisation as a reason in 2023, same to taking children away from parents, there are many children out there left with parents right now that would be much better off if they were removed, so to be honest do we carry on looking back at things from hundreds of years ago or move on, if we dont move on in 100 years things will just be the same.

It's not handwringing at all. It's a statement of historical fact - look it up.

You seem to think colonisation is in the past. It is a process that continues. History continues to influence the present and future.

Yes, other children are removed from parents. But this was done because of Aboriginality, and it was done for generations. Do you not understand the effect this has on children, on families, over generations? Do you not see the connection between what has been done and the disadvantage many find themselves in?

 

[captainsutto]

One of the concerns that some people have brought up with The Voice is you have how do you construct a group that will properly represent all FN people -all over Australia? Will the Voice be weighted towards having more members from a particular place, for example, Inner city Sydney?

I agree with this but maybe antsoft could put a different slant on it.

The now demonised and cancelled welfare card, from what I recall at the time, was done at the request of female elders,
in effect their voice was listened to but then cancelled.

How will this voice be any different

 

[Bluey]

Fact is a lot of the children that were removed to protect them as they were mixed race or in other dangers, and this has not gone on for quite a while, and you realize so many people who survived the Holocaust went on to be very successful , its time to move on and stop pointing to issues long past.

It's not handwringing at all. It's a statement of historical fact - look it up.

You seem to think colonisation is in the past. It is a process that continues. History continues to influence the present and future.

Yes, other children are removed from parents. But this was done because of Aboriginality, and it was done for generations. Do you not understand the effect this has on children, on families, over generations? Do you not see the connection between what has been done and the disadvantage many find themselves in?

 

[Reggy]

I'm sorry I started this thread. I thought it was nice message from SSFC.

I can see from comments there is a long way to go for Australia.

Let's lock the thread.

 

[captainsutto]

Reggy, Why?
it’s been civil, you can’t lock it down because you don’t agree with some views.

 

[captainsutto]

Fact is a lot of the children that were removed to protect them as they were mixed race

With the reading I’ve done there certainly appears to have been a lot of inter racial marriages.

 

[Bluey]

Yes mixed marriages later on but in the early 1900s late 1800s the tribes didnt take too kindly to little half caste kids.

With the reading I’ve done there certainly appears to have been a lot of inter racial marriages.

 

[Bluey]

Relax Reggie, its a balanced well mannered discussion , i am outnumbered for sure, thats only because many who agree with me dont want to poke their head up from the trenches..

I'm sorry I started this thread. I thought it was nice message from SSFC.

I can see from comments there is a long way to go for Australia.

Let's lock the thread.

 

[chelseabree]

I agree with this but maybe antsoft could put a different slant on it.

The now demonised and cancelled welfare card, from what I recall at the time, was done at the request of female elders,
in effect their voice was listened to but then cancelled.

How will this voice be any different

I have to agree. I firmly believe that ALL children in Australia should be given EVERY opportunity to succeed in school to the best of their abilities . To do this they must be nurtured at home. ANY parents , black, white, pink, purple, brown have a responsibility to provide that nurturing. It breaks my heart to see ANY children who are not getting that. And it gives an impression that his might be the case in Alice. If female elders, mothers themselves most likely, requested a welfare card to help the FN children and it was working and then taken away, the person'(s) responsible should be shot. I'm not sure, did Albo meet with these female elders and get their opinion? If not why not? If what you say is correct then Albo should restore the card yesterday.