Our greatest p.m.

[Kent Brockman]

In what way was he poor Kent?, i think he did a great job.

For much of his time in power, Australia was in the middle of a resources boom. So much money coming in to treasury.
Add to that the money from the Telstra sell off and selling our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
What did we get for that?
Big infrastructure projects? Nope.
Money invested as a future source of income? Nope.
What we did get was tax cuts for the upper and middle class that didn't really need it.
Along with the 50% discount on the tax on the sale of negatively geared properties, this has led to the crazy housing market we are "enjoying" today.
Then there is the franking credits, which I'm pretty sure no other country does.
All this was irresponsible as anyone could see that when the good times stopped these inbuilt cuts meant that government deficits were almost inevitable.
The three biggest spending government's were 3 Howard years.

Other times I think he failed as a PM.
Taking us in to a war on a lie (WMDs). Australian soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan. There were no WMDs and everyone knew it.
The children overboard saga. Disgusting base politics based on a lie.
Letting David Hicks rot in Guantanamo Bay for base political reasons. He was there at least 12 months after the UK demanded and got their citizens back.
Another thing he did was, on his thank you tour to the US after the Iraq war was "mission accomplished" was to sign us up to the F35 JSF program. The first time the RAAF knew about this was after it was done. No tender. No due process. Just, here you go boys, our new fighter. An senior RAAF figure described it as extraordinary. Can you imagine the Daily Telegraphs reaction if Kevin Rudd did that?

There is no doubt more, but having lived through the 80s and 90s (I'm 54), I have seen Australia go from an optimistic, outward looking, generous, friendly country to being a small minded, mean, inward looking country. John Howard made our country in his image. He has also driven the LNP to the far right. Not good for them, not good for the country.

Before I finish I'll admit that my truth regarding Howard may or is not the truth. I am biased towards the left but at the same time I think we got it wrong in 93 when John Hewson lost. I think he would have made a good PM.

Here are a few links below if anyone is interested. And while you may not agree with me bluey I appreciate the spirit in which you asked.

Australia's growing debt explodes the myth that Libs are better economic managers - Michael West

www.michaelwest.com.au

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-spectator/news-story/how-howards-last-budget-planted-the-seeds-of-deficit/ceaf826087752638bbee95c7f0921f70

In the big picture, luck, tax cuts tell true deficit story

They say it's only when the tide goes out you discover who's been swimming naked.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Bluey]

Just on tax, i heard a lot of whining re the tax cuts, if you are earning 200k a year you pay 60k tax, that is close to 1,200$ a week, by far more than a persons fair share to help run the country, as for franking credits, if you own part of a company that has paid tax on its earnings then i cant see why you should have to pay again, im 62 so ive seen a few Pms in my time, Rudd and Gillard were shockers, i admired Howard for closing the door to people who thought they could travel from the Middle East , Africa or Sri Lanka and land on a beach and demand to stay, as for politics i was a strong unionist but found Labor turned too green and no longer cared for the working man, just like now with immigration .
And i didnt agree with going to war with Iraq, i mean the 9/11 terrorists were mainly Saudi for gods sake.

For much of his time in power, Australia was in the middle of a resources boom. So much money coming in to treasury.
Add to that the money from the Telstra sell off and selling our gold reserves at rock bottom prices.
What did we get for that?
Big infrastructure projects? Nope.
Money invested as a future source of income? Nope.
What we did get was tax cuts for the upper and middle class that didn't really need it.
Along with the 50% discount on the tax on the sale of negatively geared properties, this has led to the crazy housing market we are "enjoying" today.
Then there is the franking credits, which I'm pretty sure no other country does.
All this was irresponsible as anyone could see that when the good times stopped these inbuilt cuts meant that government deficits were almost inevitable.
The three biggest spending government's were 3 Howard years.

Other times I think he failed as a PM.
Taking us in to a war on a lie (WMDs). Australian soldiers died in Iraq and Afghanistan. There were no WMDs and everyone knew it.
The children overboard saga. Disgusting base politics based on a lie.
Letting David Hicks rot in Guantanamo Bay for base political reasons. He was there at least 12 months after the UK demanded and got their citizens back.
Another thing he did was, on his thank you tour to the US after the Iraq war was "mission accomplished" was to sign us up to the F35 JSF program. The first time the RAAF knew about this was after it was done. No tender. No due process. Just, here you go boys, our new fighter. An senior RAAF figure described it as extraordinary. Can you imagine the Daily Telegraphs reaction if Kevin Rudd did that?

There is no doubt more, but having lived through the 80s and 90s (I'm 54), I have seen Australia go from an optimistic, outward looking, generous, friendly country to being a small minded, mean, inward looking country. John Howard made our country in his image. He has also driven the LNP to the far right. Not good for them, not good for the country.

Before I finish I'll admit that my truth regarding Howard may or is not the truth. I am biased towards the left but at the same time I think we got it wrong in 93 when John Hewson lost. I think he would have made a good PM.

Here are a few links below if anyone is interested. And while you may not agree with me bluey I appreciate the spirit in which you asked.

Australia's growing debt explodes the myth that Libs are better economic managers - Michael West

www.michaelwest.com.au

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/business-spectator/news-story/how-howards-last-budget-planted-the-seeds-of-deficit/ceaf826087752638bbee95c7f0921f70

In the big picture, luck, tax cuts tell true deficit story

They say it's only when the tide goes out you discover who's been swimming naked.

www.smh.com.au

 

[Kent Brockman]

Just on tax, i heard a lot of whining re the tax cuts, if you are earning 200k a year you pay 60k tax, that is close to 1,200$ a week, by far more than a persons fair share to help run the country, as for franking credits, if you own part of a company that has paid tax on its earnings then i cant see why you should have to pay again, im 62 so ive seen a few Pms in my time, Rudd and Gillard were shockers, i admired Howard for closing the door to people who thought they could travel from the Middle East , Africa or Sri Lanka and land on a beach and demand to stay, as for politics i was a strong unionist but found Labor turned too green and no longer cared for the working man, just like now with immigration .
And i didnt agree with going to war with Iraq, i mean the 9/11 terrorists were mainly Saudi for gods sake.

Fair call on all those mate. The refugees issue is a tricky one. Try to look after those in genuine need and the freeloaders come flooding in. There's no easy answer, that's why it has divided the nation for so long I guess.
And tax would be or could be less if multinationals paid their fair share. The LNP have tried that I guess.
Either way we are better off with a centre government.

 

[Magaoidh]

Good comments all nice change!

 

[Prowsey]

Then there is the franking credits, which I'm pretty sure no other country does.

That's not quite true.

Paul Keating (I think) introduced franking credits to stop double taxation of income. This is a common practice in a number of countries.

What Howard did was to permanently lock in place a ridiculous system whereby IF YOU PAY NO TAX on your personal income, you CAN RECEIVE A REFUND from the rest of us taxpayers.

There are some estimates that the dividend imputation scheme is costing Australian taxpayers around $35bn a year.

There is no country that I'm aware of that not only removes double taxation on dividends, but also then gives a refund on the company tax paid, if you paid no tax.

It is a rort and like all rorts the small number of beneficiarys will go to the ends of the earth to protect their gravy train.

 

[Bluey]

And some people spend their whole lives draining the country and never contribute anything but the crosshairs never seem to settle on them.

That's not quite true.

Paul Keating (I think) introduced franking credits to stop double taxation of income. This is a common practice in a number of countries.

What Howard did was to permanently lock in place a ridiculous system whereby IF YOU PAY NO TAX on your personal income, you CAN RECEIVE A REFUND from the rest of us taxpayers.

There are some estimates that the dividend imputation scheme is costing Australian taxpayers around $35bn a year.

There is no country that I'm aware of that not only removes double taxation on dividends, but also then gives a refund on the company tax paid, if you paid no tax.

It is a rort and like all rorts the small number of beneficiarys will go to the ends of the earth to protect their gravy train.

 

[Prowsey]

And some people spend their whole lives draining the country and never contribute anything but the crosshairs never seem to settle on them.

I’m not interested in getting into a reductive debate with you.

You have proven yourself to be on the extreme right of politics, with populist responses to any sensible post, that have little bearing on reality.

I responded to Kent to provide some clarity on one item of his post.

That’s it and that’s all.

 

[Bluey]

You have your opinion, i dont class myself as far right, especially as i was a rusted on Labor voter till i was 41, i think of myself as being a realist and the center of politics..

I’m not interested in getting into a reductive debate with you.

You have proven yourself to be on the extreme right of politics, with populist responses to any sensible post, that have little bearing on reality.

I responded to Kent to provide some clarity on one item of his post.

That’s it and that’s all.

 

[Kent Brockman]

It is a rort and like all rorts the small number of beneficiarys will go to the ends of the earth to protect their gravy train.

I heard a funny comment once that I hope I get right,
"I hope I'm never as scared as a billionaire is scared of becoming a hundred millionaire"

 

[Magaoidh]

Any votes on shirtfront Abbott as our greatest twit for p.m.?

 

[Prowsey]

I heard a funny comment once that I hope I get right,
"I hope I'm never as scared as a billionaire is scared of becoming a hundred millionaire"

I’ve always been partial to:

“You show me a billionaire and I’ll show you a criminal” (or words to that effect).

The other thing that always amuses me is when people who make Genghis Khan look like a woke lefty elite describe themselves as in the centre.

Yep as long as the centre is on the far right, I agree with them.

Oh and my favourite PM of all time is Paul Keating. He and Bob Hawke as PM reshaped this country and shepherded the economic reforms that provided 30 years of continuous growth (well that and record levels of immigration [temporary and permanent] under LNP and Labor Govt’s for nearly two decades) and unbelievable levels of wealth creation for all of us.

They built the foundations of an economic powerhouse that punches far above its weight.

And to provide balance they also planted the seeds of our current cost of living crisis (ie home affordability etc), that was exacerbated by permanent middle class welfare introduced by Howard.

Who will go down in the annals as an economic vandal.

 

[thebestsince1908]

This thread is rubbish! A bunch of opinions and you know what they say about opinions they’re like backsides everyone’s got one. I have an opinion and it’s that politicians should remember that they are all just representatives of the Australian people and they should focus on being representatives and not on furthering their political careers or pushing their agendas, do the right thing, admit when you are wrong, make the hard decisions and tell the truth even if it’s unpopular. It probably won’t happen I don’t think we have enough politicians who act in an intelligent and ethical manner.

 

[Bluey]

Who would want to be a politician, no matter what you do half the population wants to spit on you, look at the extinction rebellion crowd, i wonder how they would deal with reality if we stopped digging up and selling coal tomorrow, the hit to the budget would be massive, people scream about how much politicians are paid but look at the ASX, the managing director of a tiny mining spec would be on 400k plus a year.

This thread is rubbish! A bunch of opinions and you know what they say about opinions they’re like backsides everyone’s got one. I have an opinion and it’s that politicians should remember that they are all just representatives of the Australian people and they should focus on being representatives and not on furthering their political careers or pushing their agendas, do the right thing, admit when you are wrong, make the hard decisions and tell the truth even if it’s unpopular. It probably won’t happen I don’t think we have enough politicians who act in an intelligent and ethical manner.

 

[Bluey]

Speaking of Twits, how did you rate Kevin Rudd.?

Any votes on shirtfront Abbott as our greatest twit for p.m.?

 

[Magaoidh]

This thread is rubbish! A bunch of opinions and you know what they say about opinions they’re like backsides everyone’s got one. I have an opinion and it’s that politicians should remember that they are all just representatives of the Australian people and they should focus on being representatives and not on furthering their political careers or pushing their agendas, do the right thing, admit when you are wrong, make the hard decisions and tell the truth even if it’s unpopular. It probably won’t happen I don’t think we have enough politicians who act in an intelligent and ethical manner.

A bunch of opinions not all mate when I make a statement unless I am having a laugh it will be based on historical fact Or personal experience.That’s how to figure it all out!
You are saying that your opinion is fact not really,anyway enjoy the day!
I read a lot of opinions at times about how useless the Health system in this country really is.
Unfortunately in recent years I have spent a lot of time in hospitals,my brother in law is a GP and I see and know just how dedicated he is as are his mates.
A lot of people go shooting their mouth off on all subjects great and small.
Sure they are entitled to their opinion but at least try and learn what you are talking about.
I had an Irish friend who was a gun welder,he had worked in the trade in many countries throughout the world in his time.
He once said to me that the best people he had ever known were the Aussies except for one thing.” They have strong opinions on subjects they know nothing about”Feel free to check out the facts around what I have written,Google it!