Manly Pride Debacle

[andyrabbit]

Andy this, will just end up with someone spitting the dummy, if you want to talk more PM me.
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No problem. I'll leave it at that.

 

[daRque]

So, what did everyone decide?

 

[Bluey]

They shouldnt be cornering people on this issue, most people dont have an issue with what others do behind closed doors but it doesnt mean they want to be seen as condoning it, these guys are here to play sport, let them play footy and keep that subject for other forums.

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

Personally, I'm pro-respect. Each to their own though ...

 

[captainsutto]

Personally, I'm pro-respect. Each to their own though ...

If your a decent human being you are pro respect.
we don’t need a football club to tell us that. Let’s have a day reminding people to eat healthy ( if there’s such a thing) …..or breathe, that’s a good idea because some might forget

it’s a marketing ploy, pure and simple.

 

[southsport]

Personally, I'm pro-respect. Each to their own though ...

Mega you can be very selective about what you respect.
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[andyrabbit]

If your a decent human being you are pro respect.
we don’t need a football club to tell us that. Let’s have a day reminding people to eat healthy ( if there’s such a thing) …..or breathe, that’s a good idea because some might forget

it’s a marketing ploy, pure and simple.

All these special rounds are marketing. That is what the NRL do.

I'm not sure we're ever going to reach a place of respect when one section of the community believes that another will go to hell due to their lifestyle, or disrespect another due to their race. The proposed Pride round was a missed opportunity to widen the game's appeal in my opinion, however you are never going to please everyone. I find some of the extreme religious attitudes abhorrent, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to wear a jersey depicting something I'm strongly against.

 

[captainsutto]

All these special rounds are marketing. That is what the NRL do.

I'm not sure we're ever going to reach a place of respect when one section of the community believes that another will go to hell due to their lifestyle, or disrespect another due to their race. The proposed Pride round was a missed opportunity to widen the game's appeal in my opinion, however you are never going to please everyone. I find some of the extreme religious attitudes abhorrent, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to wear a jersey depicting something I'm strongly against.

Good post Andy. I feel the same way.
that last sentence sums it up. The women in league round isn’t divisive. There isnt anyone who denies the time, energy and passion that women put into the game. That’s what’s celebrated, not the fact they were born women.

indigenous round is celebrating the huge numbers of aboriginal & Māori that make up the game. A thank you. It’s not saying we are doing it because of your skin colour

 

[southsport]

All these special rounds are marketing. That is what the NRL do.

I'm not sure we're ever going to reach a place of respect when one section of the community believes that another will go to hell due to their lifestyle, or disrespect another due to their race. The proposed Pride round was a missed opportunity to widen the game's appeal in my opinion, however you are never going to please everyone. I find some of the extreme religious attitudes abhorrent, but at the same time, I wouldn't want to wear a jersey depicting something I'm strongly against.

I doubt very much that people automatically go to hell because they are gay.
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[Rabbits21]

67percent of NRL coaches are against having a Pride round.

 

[captainsutto]

One idiot wanted to abolish penalty goals

coaches can’t be trusted with deciding rules etc. they are riddled with self interest

 

[andyrabbit]

I doubt very much that people automatically go to hell because they are gay.
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I doubt hell exists (just my opinion) but that's not the point. If you are young with a religious upbringing but also happen to be gay then no doubt this kind of thinking could affect your mental health. Suicide is a big killer of youth. I think a Pride round would go some way to just feeling included.

Rabbits21, I think a lot of coaches were spooked by what happened at Manly. Ultimately Des is not there anymore. I guess from their point of view it's easier for them if there isn't a Pride round. Less to worry about.

As I've said, I do get that wearing a jersey depicting something that goes against your beliefs would be a real problem. I'm not against people having religious beliefs, but some of those beliefs to me seem stuck in the dark ages. We no longer stone unbelievers or burn witches. Most people accept that the world is older than 6000 years and that dinosaurs existed.

 

[broncobuster]

Alright, since this topic has been brought up again, I thought I'd weigh in on the comments by PvL.

“What a Respect Round is, is that it respects everyone's views. We might not agree with them, but we respect them.

“So if we were going to do anything we were going to do a Respect Round. It wasn't going to be a Pride Round because then you alienate other people.

PvL's key message here is that a "Pride" round would "alienate other people". Yet, from the NRL's own LGBTI Fact Sheet:

The NRL supports Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender and Intersex (LGBTI) people and are vocal supporters of eliminating discrimination against LGBTI people both on and off the field.

That doesn't sound like vocal support to me.

It's becoming clear that the NRL are only trying to tick the boxes on social issues rather than make a material or meaningful effort in many cases - we have Women in League round but Rugby League Central are still balking at demands made by female players and allowing players with a history of violence against women to continue playing in the league.

On a "Respect" round, I actually like the idea - however, it becomes problematic since the dialogue is essentially now saying you can be pro- or anti-LGBTIQA+ during that round. This violates their own fact sheet once more:

The NRL’s codes of conduct require all participants (players, parents, coaches, referees, volunteers, spectators and officials) to maintain high standards of personal conduct and to be respectful at all times to LGBTI people.

It's clear that the NRL's attitude to LGBTI people HAS NOT yet been integrated into the game - we have had alleged homophobic slurs (amongst alleged racist and ableist slurs too) and then the whole "Everyone in League" debacle last year, where everyone in rugby league was given a platform to either support or denigrate LGBTIQA+ involvement in our sport and society.

We cannot trust, as we know all too well from the "dark days", the NRL to truly put the game, its supporters and its people at the forefront of its operations. It will always put the almighty dollar above everything else.

I can almost guarantee, had Manly not kicked up a fuss about the jersey, that the NRL would have come out and said "we've been looking at a Pride Round for years". Having seen the bad press it brought the league, now their tune is "we were never looking at a Pride Round".

The NRL were quite staunch, in 2017, that they would have Macklemore perform "Same Love" during the marriage equality debate and refused the (ridiculous) suggestion that another artist should have performed a song for "traditional marriage" too.

The NRL have never opened up a debate on whether we should celebrate the women of rugby league, or First Nations people's contribution to the sport, or ANZAC Round, or anything - they have always mandated that those rounds will happen because the NRL say they will.

If there is a "Respect" round, will respect be shown to those who say "we shouldn't glorify the sacrifices of the young Australians who died at Gallipoli" or "rugby league's success is because of the powerful men behind the scenes" or "white Australians have made the sport what it is today"? (I feel sick just writing some of those)

Will respect be shown to those who don't want to sing (or stand for) Advance Australia Fair out of their own principles?

No. Don't even kid yourself.

But the NRL wants you to believe that, for their benefit, we should respect their views. Ask the people at Pell's funeral yesterday whether they believed we should respect the other side's opinion. Ask the people who are on different sides of the Indigenous Voice debate, or the abortion debate, or the marriage equality debate, or any other controversial topic.

The NRL wants to parade (pardon the pun) their involvement in Mardi Gras and all these great and wonderful things they're doing to integrate LGBTIQA+ people into rugby league:

The NRL is proud to participate in the Pride in Sport (PIS) Index; a recently established benchmarking instrument designed to measure and advise on the creation of inclusive and equitable environments for LGBTI players, supporters and participants within participating Australian sporting codes and sporting clubs.

In 2014, the NRL became the first national sporting organisation to join ‘Pride In Diversity’ (PID) – Australia’s only non-profit workplace program aimed at assisting employers with the inclusion of LGBTQI staff.

In 2014, the NRL joined the AFL, Cricket Australia and the FFA in endorsing the PID Anti-Homophobia and Inclusion Framework.

In 2015, the NRL participated in the Mardi Gras for the first time.

but they just won't take a full stand at saying "they're here, they're queer, get used to it".

 

[MegaRabbitoh]

Alright, since this topic has been brought up again, I thought I'd weigh in on the comments by PvL.


PvL's key message here is that a "Pride" round would "alienate other people". Yet, from the NRL's own LGBTI Fact Sheet:

That doesn't sound like vocal support to me.

It's becoming clear that the NRL are only trying to tick the boxes on social issues rather than make a material or meaningful effort in many cases - we have Women in League round but Rugby League Central are still balking at demands made by female players and allowing players with a history of violence against women to continue playing in the league.

On a "Respect" round, I actually like the idea - however, it becomes problematic since the dialogue is essentially now saying you can be pro- or anti-LGBTIQA+ during that round. This violates their own fact sheet once more:

It's clear that the NRL's attitude to LGBTI people HAS NOT yet been integrated into the game - we have had alleged homophobic slurs (amongst alleged racist and ableist slurs too) and then the whole "Everyone in League" debacle last year, where everyone in rugby league was given a platform to either support or denigrate LGBTIQA+ involvement in our sport and society.

We cannot trust, as we know all too well from the "dark days", the NRL to truly put the game, its supporters and its people at the forefront of its operations. It will always put the almighty dollar above everything else.

I can almost guarantee, had Manly not kicked up a fuss about the jersey, that the NRL would have come out and said "we've been looking at a Pride Round for years". Having seen the bad press it brought the league, now their tune is "we were never looking at a Pride Round".

The NRL were quite staunch, in 2017, that they would have Macklemore perform "Same Love" during the marriage equality debate and refused the (ridiculous) suggestion that another artist should have performed a song for "traditional marriage" too.

The NRL have never opened up a debate on whether we should celebrate the women of rugby league, or First Nations people's contribution to the sport, or ANZAC Round, or anything - they have always mandated that those rounds will happen because the NRL say they will.

If there is a "Respect" round, will respect be shown to those who say "we shouldn't glorify the sacrifices of the young Australians who died at Gallipoli" or "rugby league's success is because of the powerful men behind the scenes" or "white Australians have made the sport what it is today"? (I feel sick just writing some of those)

Will respect be shown to those who don't want to sing (or stand for) Advance Australia Fair out of their own principles?

No. Don't even kid yourself.

But the NRL wants you to believe that, for their benefit, we should respect their views. Ask the people at Pell's funeral yesterday whether they believed we should respect the other side's opinion. Ask the people who are on different sides of the Indigenous Voice debate, or the abortion debate, or the marriage equality debate, or any other controversial topic.

The NRL wants to parade (pardon the pun) their involvement in Mardi Gras and all these great and wonderful things they're doing to integrate LGBTIQA+ people into rugby league:

but they just won't take a full stand at saying "they're here, they're queer, get used to it".

Well written broncobuster. It appears that with enough push back and pressure from a small but powerful minority in the game and wider community, the NRL has caved in and watered it all down so that it loses its purpose altogether. These special rounds are meant to be to support and change perceptions about oppressed sections of our community. The demographics in society that are not under siege do not need a light shined on them to help them to survive because they're doing just fine. Even if a particular small minority chooses to use the tactic of crying poor victim, most of us can see through that for what it is - manipulative BS for the purpose of being allowed to continue to persecute another minority - the LGBTQi community.

If they end up having a Respect Round, we all know what it really is for and that it is just a chicken shit name borne out of cowardice that was supposed to be a brave stand against bullying.

 

[southsport]

There should be a round to celebrate muslims in league.
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