Manly Pride Debacle

[captainsutto]

Alright, since this topic has been brought up again, I thought I'd weigh in on the comments by PvL.


PvL's key message here is that a "Pride" round would "alienate other people". Yet, from the NRL's own LGBTI Fact Sheet:

That doesn't sound like vocal support to me.

It's becoming clear that the NRL are only trying to tick the boxes on social issues rather than make a material or meaningful effort in many cases - we have Women in League round but Rugby League Central are still balking at demands made by female players and allowing players with a history of violence against women to continue playing in the league.

On a "Respect" round, I actually like the idea - however, it becomes problematic since the dialogue is essentially now saying you can be pro- or anti-LGBTIQA+ during that round. This violates their own fact sheet once more:

It's clear that the NRL's attitude to LGBTI people HAS NOT yet been integrated into the game - we have had alleged homophobic slurs (amongst alleged racist and ableist slurs too) and then the whole "Everyone in League" debacle last year, where everyone in rugby league was given a platform to either support or denigrate LGBTIQA+ involvement in our sport and society.

We cannot trust, as we know all too well from the "dark days", the NRL to truly put the game, its supporters and its people at the forefront of its operations. It will always put the almighty dollar above everything else.

I can almost guarantee, had Manly not kicked up a fuss about the jersey, that the NRL would have come out and said "we've been looking at a Pride Round for years". Having seen the bad press it brought the league, now their tune is "we were never looking at a Pride Round".

The NRL were quite staunch, in 2017, that they would have Macklemore perform "Same Love" during the marriage equality debate and refused the (ridiculous) suggestion that another artist should have performed a song for "traditional marriage" too.

The NRL have never opened up a debate on whether we should celebrate the women of rugby league, or First Nations people's contribution to the sport, or ANZAC Round, or anything - they have always mandated that those rounds will happen because the NRL say they will.

If there is a "Respect" round, will respect be shown to those who say "we shouldn't glorify the sacrifices of the young Australians who died at Gallipoli" or "rugby league's success is because of the powerful men behind the scenes" or "white Australians have made the sport what it is today"? (I feel sick just writing some of those)

Will respect be shown to those who don't want to sing (or stand for) Advance Australia Fair out of their own principles?

No. Don't even kid yourself.

But the NRL wants you to believe that, for their benefit, we should respect their views. Ask the people at Pell's funeral yesterday whether they believed we should respect the other side's opinion. Ask the people who are on different sides of the Indigenous Voice debate, or the abortion debate, or the marriage equality debate, or any other controversial topic.

The NRL wants to parade (pardon the pun) their involvement in Mardi Gras and all these great and wonderful things they're doing to integrate LGBTIQA+ people into rugby league:

but they just won't take a full stand at saying "they're here, they're queer, get used to it".

well, after reading all of that it appears to me the NRL is a reflection of society as a whole

 

[captainsutto]

There should be a round to celebrate muslims in league.
.

26(?) rounds this year so why not come to the smorgasbord

 

[Bluey]

If half the NRL coaches are against a pride round its already dead in the water, force the issue and you will only encourage turmoil , this would be the last thing the gay community would want, in the best days of the NRL i dont think they had any special rounds i can remember.
Does it make the coaches homophobes?, no way, just think they want to avoid drama or backlash.

 

[southsport]

If half the NRL coaches are against a pride round its already dead in the water, force the issue and you will only encourage turmoil , this would be the last thing the gay community would want, in the best days of the NRL i dont think they had any special rounds i can remember.
Does it make the coaches homophobes?, no way, just think they want to avoid drama or backlash.

Actually I think the special rounds detract from the game itself, I try to avoid watching it prior to the game.
.

 

[broncobuster]

If every round is special, no round is special.

It's a bit of a catch-22 as it pertains to the LGBTIQA+ issue in rugby league. No "Pride" round and the league will look like they don't give a stuff if other leagues jump on that train first and lose out on potential support from the LGBTIQA+ community. Have a "Pride" round and stand out but open yourself up to criticism.

Sometimes, big issues take real bravery to achieve change. For some reason, who a consenting adult chooses to love has become a big issue that required input from people of whom that issue did not concern.

Nicky Winmar had to stand up against racism at Victoria Park to help bring forth respect to indigenous players in the AFL (and even that took much longer to achieve than it should have). It has taken years for female sportspeople to be taken seriously commercially by most governing bodies, TV networks and the like, and we're still not there yet. These are two areas the NRL has been promoting for years, but were initially stands taken by individual clubs rather than a league-wide initiative.

At the moment, you wouldn't want to come out and identify yourself as LGBTIQA+ in rugby league because that opens you up to criticism from people who have no business having an opinion about your choices off the field and in your private life.

Whether or not the NRL wants to take that stand of its own accord is up to them, but at some point in the future, the issue will come to the forefront and someone will have to take a stand.

For all the people that talk about the "alienation" of Pasifika players and the like (based on their cultural norms), I'd like to remind them that the NRL has over the past few years started a "Multicultural Round" already with several teams wearing jerseys or taking other initiatives to represent the cultural diversity within the league.

Considering how vitriolic the response (from both sides) of the Manly "Pride jersey" debacle was, this is a Tylenol moment for the league. To paraphrase a saying: "failing to act is acting to fail". Silence can say more than speaking out and unfortunately the NRL's silence on this issue is deafening.

 

[daRque]

So after all the fuss last year and the talk of what will happen in 2023, has it even been mentioned this year?

 

[broncobuster]

So after all the fuss last year and the talk of what will happen in 2023, has it even been mentioned this year?

Nope - the NRL have gone completely quiet on the issues

 

[daRque]

Nope - the NRL have gone completely quiet on the issues

Interesting.

 

[broncobuster]

Interesting.

For both "sides" funnily enough:

For the pro-LGBTIQA+ side, the silence is deafening. Considering the NRL made such a song and dance about supporting the yes vote on Grand Final day and for many years had a float at Mardi Gras, it almost seems like they've completely abandoned their support.

For the anti-"Pride" side, you could see it as a win for "keeping politics out of sport", but then you have things like Women in League and the no-fault stand down plus the NRL's support of the Uluru Statement and the Indigenous voice.

What this really means is that the NRL, as one could have imagined, is really just gutless and will stay quiet unless there is a clear commercial interest. Who'd have thought...

 

[daRque]

For both "sides" funnily enough:

For the pro-LGBTIQA+ side, the silence is deafening. Considering the NRL made such a song and dance about supporting the yes vote on Grand Final day and for many years had a float at Mardi Gras, it almost seems like they've completely abandoned their support.

For the anti-"Pride" side, you could see it as a win for "keeping politics out of sport", but then you have things like Women in League and the no-fault stand down plus the NRL's support of the Uluru Statement and the Indigenous voice.

What this really means is that the NRL, as one could have imagined, is really just gutless and will stay quiet unless there is a clear commercial interest. Who'd have thought...

Agree with most of that.

Then there are people who are not anti LGBT nor pro for it, I fall into this category.

Personally I don't see a need to bring matters of sexuality/LGBT into the NRL, nor do I see a need to bring religion into it as some have done.

However if they have a Pride Day personally I don't give a toss, doesn't impact me in any way.

Live and let live.

 

[broncobuster]

Agree with most of that.

Then there are people who are not anti LGBT nor pro for it, I fall into this category.

Personally I don't see a need to bring matters of sexuality/LGBT into the NRL, nor do I see a need to bring religion into it as some have done.

However if they have a Pride Day personally I don't give a toss, doesn't impact me in any way.

Live and let live.

What I would say to people like you who say they're neither anti- nor pro-LGBTIQA+ is: what's the harm in one game where the NRL says "we will accept you if you're LGBTIQA+" like they do for Women in League or Indigenous/Multicultural Rounds?

 

[daRque]

What I would say to people like you who say they're neither anti- nor pro-LGBTIQA+ is: what's the harm in one game where the NRL says "we will accept you if you're LGBTIQA+" like they do for Women in League or Indigenous/Multicultural Rounds?

I guess I could ask back, what is the need for it?

I am not aware of one single instance in which anyone from the LGBetc movement has not been accepted within any sphere of rugby league, player, staff or fans.

That record makes it pretty obvious everyone is accepted in the game, so why is there a need to make a day of it.

Plus, we need to look at balance. If we have a Pride Day do we then need a Religious Day so that people like Folau are not treated as disgracefully as he was for quoting the Bible. That was very unfair.

We have religious players, black players, white players, gay players (I assume), migrant players etc etc, we have people in rugby league from every area and type you can imagine.

I don't see a need to highlight any individual area.

I feel there are exceptions, such as ANZAC DAY round, but that is of significant national historical importance.

 

[broncobuster]

I guess I could ask back, what is the need for it?

The courageous journey of Ian Roberts, rugby league's first openly gay player

“Until Ian Roberts came out we thought all gay guys were weak,” says Mario Fenech, the former South Sydney Rabbitohs captain and Roberts’s team-mate.

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I am not aware of one single instance in which anyone from the LGBetc movement has not been accepted within any sphere of rugby league, player, staff or fans.

That record makes it pretty obvious everyone is accepted in the game, so why is there a need to make a day of it.

Pride in Sport - LGBTQ INCLUSION IN SPORT

• 80% of participants have witnessed or experienced homophobia in sport
• 87% of gay men and 75% of lesbians are completely or partially in the closet while playing youth sport compared to 55% of people in the closet within the Australian corporate sector. Many fear discrimination from other players, coaches and officials
• 75% of people believe an openly gay person would not be safe as a spectator at a sporting event

‘I can’t stand silent’: Why Trent Robinson is stepping up fight against homophobia in sport

“I have guys that would have different beliefs in that change room about what they think is accepted in the community that they come from,” Robinson says.

“And at the most basic level, the education is around just simple language – the jokes, the banter, ‘Hey, don’t say it that way or lazily use homophobic language in our environment’.
“It’s OK to have different beliefs but it’s how you express them and your behaviour, that’s what matters.

‘Very disappointing’: study shows education does nothing to stop homophobic language in men’s rugby

A landmark study on the use of homophobic language in men’s community sport has found education campaigns run by professional rugby players did nothing to stop young players and their coaches from mindlessly using words such as “fag” and “poof” in team settings.

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Plus, we need to look at balance. If we have a Pride Day do we then need a Religious Day so that people like Folau are not treated as disgracefully as he was for quoting the Bible. That was very unfair.

We have religious players, black players, white players, gay players (I assume), migrant players etc etc, we have people in rugby league from every area and type you can imagine.

'Multi-culturalism is in our DNA': The 63 nations represented across NRL

“Often in society we congregate with people from similar backgrounds as us, or similar religions or similar genders, but sport forces us, in a way, to be able to see the benefits and the strength of multi-culturalism.

“Having many different cultures in the game is a strength and something we are really proud of.”

FitzSimons slams ‘ridiculous’ Manly response as teammates defend ‘family man’ Fonua-Blake

He was heard on the referee’s mic calling official Grant Atkins the slur [r****d], and then he’s alleged to have doubled down on the abuse and used the word [s*****c] after full-time as Atkins walked up the tunnel at Brookvale Oval.

LGBTQIA+ and Faith Communities

[...] it’s very important to recognise that leaving faith is not the experience of every LGBTQIA+ person. LGBTQIA+ people of different faiths are often made invisible by both religious and LGBTQIA+ communities.

Queerness as a source of resilience for Pacific LGBTIQ+ community

“Before Western ideas of morality were introduced, Pacific peoples embraced diverse practices around sexuality. Such behaviours were embedded and nurtured within our social interactions rather than being considered a sin,” said Professor Ravulo, Chair of Social Work and Policy Studies.

Aussie UFC star Tai Tuivasa slams Israel Folau as a hypocrite: ‘I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk’

Australian UFC star Tai Tuivasa has lashed Israel Folau as a hypocrite, claiming he’s seen the rugby superstar “blind as a skunk” and carrying on like a “f**ing idiot” on a night out.

Joining the chorus of backlash against Folau’s anti-gay remarks, Tuivasa told the Daily Telegraph Folau needed “a hiding”.

“I know what I’ve seen that idiot do when he’s out and about”,” UFC heavyweight Tuivasa said.

“... I’ve seen you out blind as a skunk carrying on now you wanna be all churchy?

“...I won’t go into detail about what went on, but I know what happened. And I know what I saw.

“The guy carried on like a f … ing idiot.

“Yet now he wants to be all righteous and put on a show?”

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I don't see a need to highlight any individual area.

I feel there are exceptions, such as ANZAC DAY round, but that is of significant national historical importance.

ARLC Vision, Mission and Values

• We are Inclusive​

  We are driven by: engaging and empowering everyone to feel welcome in our game; reaching out to new participants and supporters; promoting equality of opportunity in all its forms; respecting and celebrating diversity in culture, gender, sexuality and social background.

• We are Positive​

  We are driven by: the ability to see opportunities in the face of adversity; the willingness to stand up for our beliefs and empowering others to do the same; the commitment to stand up and be recognised as a brand ambassador; the tenacity to do something despite how hard it is or how long it takes to achieve.

• We are United​

  We are driven by: recognising and respecting our differences in the pursuit of achieving a common goal; putting the game ahead of individual needs and personal agenda; be a source of motivation and support to those around me; commitment to a culture of respect, honesty, and trust.

• We are Disciplined​

  We are driven to: say what we are going to do and do what we say; have the strength to make the right decisions, placing facts ahead of emotion; take responsibility for your own actions and the impact they have on others and the wider game; champion processes, procedures, and the governing principles of the game.

ULURU STATEMENT FROM THE HEART

Coinciding with the 2019 Indigenous Round, the NRL joined 13 other leading Australian organisations in publicly pledging their support for the statement.

David Gower - NRL Community Player Advocates

He is an Advocate for Voice Against Violence and State of Mind which aim for cultural change to stop violence against women and children and reduce stigma associated with mental health, respectively.

I believe we as players can be the voice for the many who remain silent. We can use our profile to educate.
-David Gower, Parramatta Eels

NRL Community Social Impact Report 2018 - Power for Change

The NRL is a powerful vehicle for change. Our aim is to unite communities to lead and inspire people to be the best they can be, by providing pathways and opportunities to live positive, respectful and healthy lives.

In League In Harmony

With a focus on respect, responsibility and inclusiveness, the NRL's In League In Harmony (ILIH) program aims to promote social cohesion by addressing issues such as social disengagement, racism, gender inequality and bullying; empowering youth to be agents of change for a more cohesive society.

 

[broncobuster]

My main point, @daRque , with all respect because you are absolutely a valued contributor and member of this community, is that the NRL have made it an integral part of their organisation to break down barriers that have been identified, in numerous studies and reports, to feeling safe and welcome within sport as a whole.

The simple fact of the matter is that the NRL made it their business to take a position on the issue, then backed down because of media pressures. They would not have done the same for pro-women or pro-Indigenous issues, for example, but have done it for LGBTIQA+ issues.

The AFL have been able to deal with those issues with a lot more integrity and conviction, even against their own faith- or culture-based challenges and abstainers. The NRL rolled over and let that train run over Manly and Des Hasler.

 

[daRque]

No disrespect meant but i am not interested enough in the topic to read all that.

Live and let live, respect everyone until they show they don't deserve it.