Israel and Palestine

[andyrabbit]

I have some respect for Israel and some understanding of the thinking coming out of the holocaust. The need to no longer be victims, their right to exist and defend themselves.

I was quite shocked and horrified about the Hamas attack. It was truly barbaric and no military organisation worth anything in the modern world would deliberately target citizens, young, old, women, children. It was as bad as the Taliban or Isis.

I have great sympathy for the Palestinian people though and the way they have been treated is appalling. Equally appalling is the Israel bombing, although they are likely targeting Hamas rather than citizens, and Hamas have a history of hiding amongst citizens, for both protection and the inevitable anti Israel propaganda that follows. I can also understand the anger that many Palestinians must feel after 3/4 of a century persecution.

No idea what will follow but I suspect a horrific ground invasion. I wonder if Hamas though wanted that kind of response all along. Apparently there is a huge network of tunnels and the thought of weeks or months of another war is just sickening, in one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

I have no solution but this is something I can see both sides of (kind of). What I can't see both sides of is the barbarity of Hamas. The Hamas charter makes interesting reading if what I google is real. It would not concern me if Hamas was wiped out completely. If that happens though, Israel really needs to work it out somehow with the Palestinians.

Really hope this isn't the beginning of wider conflict.

 

[andyrabbit]

And what percentage of Sydney's Islamic population was in attendance?

But based on a tiny percentage of people you think it's okay to arrive at the conclusion of "that's what they want"?

Are you actually serious?

Not only was it a tiny percentage of the Muslim population of Sydney, it was a tiny percent of the protesters who were doing the vile chanting. Others were telling them to shut up and leave.
The ones chanting "F the Jews" and the even worse one regarding gas have no place in our society, but they were a tiny minority.

 

[Prowsey]

I have some respect for Israel and some understanding of the thinking coming out of the holocaust. The need to no longer be victims, their right to exist and defend themselves.

I was quite shocked and horrified about the Hamas attack. It was truly barbaric and no military organisation worth anything in the modern world would deliberately target citizens, young, old, women, children. It was as bad as the Taliban or Isis.

I have great sympathy for the Palestinian people though and the way they have been treated is appalling. Equally appalling is the Israel bombing, although they are likely targeting Hamas rather than citizens, and Hamas have a history of hiding amongst citizens, for both protection and the inevitable anti Israel propaganda that follows. I can also understand the anger that many Palestinians must feel after 3/4 of a century persecution.

No idea what will follow but I suspect a horrific ground invasion. I wonder if Hamas though wanted that kind of response all along. Apparently there is a huge network of tunnels and the thought of weeks or months of another war is just sickening, in one of the most densely populated areas on earth.

I have no solution but this is something I can see both sides of (kind of). What I can't see both sides of is the barbarity of Hamas. The Hamas charter makes interesting reading if what I google is real. It would not concern me if Hamas was wiped out completely. If that happens though, Israel really needs to work it out somehow with the Palestinians.

Really hope this isn't the beginning of wider conflict.

There are a number of fair points in your post.

Hamas is a despicable organisation.

And I can see both sides too.

It’s an almost impossibly complex situation.

 

[Prowsey]

Not only was it a tiny percentage of the Muslim population of Sydney, it was a tiny percent of the protesters who were doing the vile chanting. Others were telling them to shut up and leave.
The ones chanting "F the Jews" and the even worse one regarding gas have no place in our society, but they were a tiny minority.

Well said.

Anti-semitism is abhorrent.

Just like vilification of Muslims or any other religious group.

I have a number of friends who are Jewish, and the things they go through to get their kids to school etc. is appalling.

 

[southsport]

Well said.

Anti-semitism is abhorrent.

Just like vilification of Muslims or any other religious group.

I have a number of friends who are Jewish, and the things they go through to get their kids to school etc. is appalling.

Except Christians, they can be vilified at will in today's society........and justifiably so.
.
.

 

[Prowsey]

Except Christians, they can be vilified at will in today's society........and justifiably so.
.
.

Nope.

I know you’re being a little flppant, but vilification of anyone based on their religious beliefs is not on.

 

[Kent Brockman]

I watched a Piers Morgan interview with an Oxford graduate Palestinian spokesman expecting to learn something……it was a shouting match!
Unbelievable!
My left wing trade union meetings were far more civilised than these barbarians!

Piers Morgan is an idiot.
He interviewed Richard Dawkins once regarding evolution. Piers asked is it possible that God exists and he created it as per the Bible.
Richard, being the scientist he is, said, it's possible.
Piers thought he'd won the argument
What makes it worse is that Richard didn't even think he was in an argument.

 

[Kent Brockman]

Here's a question for everyone.
Regardless of what your view is of the conflict,
has too much blood been spilled for there to ever be peace between these two groups?
Would take a massive amount of forgiveness by a LOT of people for it happen.
It ain't gonna happen. Very sad.

 

[southsport]

Piers Morgan is an idiot.
He interviewed Richard Dawkins once regarding evolution. Piers asked is it possible that God exists and he created it as per the Bible.
Richard, being the scientist he is, said, it's possible.
Piers thought he'd won the argument
What makes it worse is that Richard didn't even think he was in an argument.

I can't take Richard Dawkins seriously.
.

 

[Kent Brockman]

I can't take Richard Dawkins seriously.
.

Fair enough, I enjoy listening to him. Although I share his disdain for people's belief in God.

 

[southsport]

Fair enough, I enjoy listening to him. Although I share his disdain for people's belief in God.

Why do you have a disdain for God?
.

 

[Kent Brockman]

Why do you have a disdain for God?
.

Well, not God, because I don't believe a God exists, but for people's belief in God.
I try to separate the person from that belief. That is, I think a belief in God is stupid, but if someone believes in God that doesn't automatically make them stupid.
My son's grandmother, for example, is a Jehovah's Witness. I just can't get my head around how she believes in God, a God, etc., but she is a lovely lady and due to previous troubles in her life her life at present is way better than it was, mainly due to the support she receives from her fellow Witnesses.
But yeah, God? Nope.

 

[southsport]

Well, not God, because I don't believe a God exists, but for people's belief in God.
I try to separate the person from that belief. That is, I think a belief in God is stupid, but if someone believes in God that doesn't automatically make them stupid.
My son's grandmother, for example, is a Jehovah's Witness. I just can't get my head around how she believes in God, a God, etc., but she is a lovely lady and due to previous troubles in her life her life at present is way better than it was, mainly due to the support she receives from her fellow Witnesses.
But yeah, God? Nope.

So the wonders of creation and the universe just happened by chance?
.

 

[Kent Brockman]

So the wonders of creation and the universe just happened by chance?
.

Well, what about God?
Where did He come from?
There was an Australian magazine in the 90's called Newton. It only lasted a year but the first issue had an article about the Origin of the universe. Obviously speculation but it was kind of interesting that someone had a theory of how something come from nothing.
Don't get me wrong, my mind boggles at the prospect of everything around us came from nothing.
Bill Bryson wrote a great book about the history of science called "A Short History of Nearly Everything." Fantastic read that touches on how amazing the universe is, but is it really amazing because it's amazing? Or is it amazing cause it's the only one we know?

 

[Prowsey]

Here's a question for everyone.
Regardless of what your view is of the conflict,
has too much blood been spilled for there to ever be peace between these two groups?
Would take a massive amount of forgiveness by a LOT of people for it happen.
It ain't gonna happen. Very sad.

Mate,

This has been an internecine conflict going back thousands of years.

There was a brief glimmer of hope that we would get a peaceful resolution to this, with the proposal by Yitzhak Rabin to set up a “Palestinian state”.

Unfortunately he was assassinated by a Jewish extremist, before the plan could be implemented and Israel lurched to the right and stayed there.

If it makes you feel any better, the religious scholars say that the final conflict starts in the Middle East.