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Voice to Parliament Referendum

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ZIG.NISZ.

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Quite an important and historical referendum is to take place.

After reading the Uluru Statement from the Heart, I initially thought that a Yes vote was an absolute no brainer. Whilst now I am still a yes voter, I am starting to look at whether or not the change to the Constitution will be effective. Whilst the good intention is there, is it going to do what it is intended to do?

There have been the usual Yes vs No and I don't really give a shit about Albo or Dutton butting heads on this.

What I am interested in is why are respected Indigenous leaders such as Warren Mundine, Jacinta Price, Professor Gary Foley and now Uncle Francis Xavier against it?

We are still sometime away as it will only happen later this year but would really like to know what Pridesters are thinking.

PLEASE I really don't want the mods to lock this thread so if you disagree with someone, respect their opinion and give us your thoughts. There is no need to be antagonistic, insulting, personal or aggressive.

Summary on the Voice to Parliament

If you want to read the Uluru Statement from the Heart go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru_Statement_from_the_Heart
 
From where I am Zig,the last thing we want in this country is no go zones between black and white peoples as in God Bless America.
Whatever is genuinely progressive for the native people is my ideal.
Unfortunately the conservatives are alway looking for ways to turn back the hands of timešŸ„µ
 
This is an interesting podcast with Julian Leeser.

Of course itā€™ll be dismissed by some because itā€™s the Guardian, but Mr Leeser raises some very interesting points - some I agree with and some I donā€™t.

But his overwhelming point is that Constitutional recognition and a Voice to Parliament is far preferable to a preamble.

Well worth a listen I think.

 
Quite an important and historical referendum is to take place.

After reading the Uluru Statement from the Heart, I initially thought that a Yes vote was an absolute no brainer. Whilst now I am still a yes voter, I am starting to look at whether or not the change to the Constitution will be effective. Whilst the good intention is there, is it going to do what it is intended to do?

There have been the usual Yes vs No and I don't really give a shit about Albo or Dutton butting heads on this.

What I am interested in is why are respected Indigenous leaders such as Warren Mundine, Jacinta Price, Professor Gary Foley and now Uncle Francis Xavier against it?

We are still sometime away as it will only happen later this year but would really like to know what Pridesters are thinking.

PLEASE I really don't want the mods to lock this thread so if you disagree with someone, respect their opinion and give us your thoughts. There is no need to be antagonistic, insulting, personal or aggressive.

Summary on the Voice to Parliament

If you want to read the Uluru Statement from the Heart go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluru_Statement_from_the_Heart
The thing I object to is that people thinking that all indigenous people will - lemming like - all have the same opinion.

There are different opinions on this from the extreme left and right within the indigenous community.

Lidia Thorpe doesnā€™t want a Voice before a Treaty, completely ignoring that without the framework of constitutional recognition there is absolutely no chance of a Treaty getting across the lineā€¦no chance.

She is a bomb thrower, and wants to burn the place down, rather than build consensus, which is a key platform of the Uluį¹Ÿu statement from the heart.

Sheā€™s also ignoring the work being done by key indigenous figures for a multi-step process to achieve everything that she claims she wants.

1) Constitutional recognition and a Voice.
2) Truth and Reconciliation process (Makarrata)
3) Treaty.

Australia is a naturally conservative country, and they recognise that trying to go for everything all at once will fail.

Jacinta Price wants Local and Regional voices, because she believes a voice to Fed Parliament will be city focused - completely ignoring:
* That the legislation, which will be passed AFTER the referendum, will legislate local/regional voices feeding into the national voice
And
* The national voice will have specific representation from local/regional voices. Already confirmed and will be legislated.
And
* That SA has already passed legislation for a voice to parliament (and the world hasnā€™t ended). More states will follow.

She wants ā€œpractical measuresā€ completely ignoring that the Fed Opposition was in power for over a decade and did sweet **** all to address ingrained disadvantage.
AND
Parties of both sides have been promising a solution for the ā€œIndigenous problemā€ for almost 100 years, with limited involvement of the indigenous people and obvious lack of success.

I will take the word of the indigenous leadership who - having come up with the Uluį¹Ÿu statement and the draft wording for the voice - believe that a voice that is controlled by and run by indigenous people from across the country, to provide practical recommendations and solutions.
 
believe that a voice that is controlled by and run by indigenous people from across the country, to provide practical recommendations and solutions.


But yet, there is no clarification about who or what is an aboriginal person aside from , ā€œif you want to be, you areā€
Thatā€™s a hijack recipe if ever Iā€™ve seen one
 
But yet, there is no clarification about who or what is an aboriginal person aside from , ā€œif you want to be, you areā€
Thatā€™s a hijack recipe if ever Iā€™ve seen one
There was when I was studying some 30 plus years ago. You had to be of indigenous descent and identify as indigenous. Has something changed?
 
Further to that wasnā€™t the uluru statement from the heart rejected? I recall seeing an interview saying that it collapsed due to the aboriginal parties disagreeing
 
Good intentions from Albo but I can see this ending up in a big mess just like the NDIS, government can't be trusted to run anything properly.
.
 
There was when I was studying some 30 plus years ago. You had to be of indigenous descent and identify as indigenous. Has something changed?

Not any more from what I can see. You donā€™t need any direct relatives with aboriginal blood, you just need to say you are one



ā€œGovernment agencies and community organisations usually accept three ā€˜working criteriaā€™ as confirmation of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander heritage. These are:

  • being of Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander descent
  • identifying as an Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander person
  • being accepted as such by the community in which you live, or formerly lived.
 
Good intentions from Albo but I can see this ending up in a big mess just like the NDIS, government can't be trusted to run anything properly.
.

Fully agree his intentions are good.
Just like the previous government who didnā€™t ā€œfixā€ the issues as Prowsey pointed out.
The problem is he also, recently, totally ignored the voices in place in the NT for his own Anglo governments privileged stance on how to fix those issues.

Thus giving a clear insight into how effective the voice will be
 
Further to that wasnā€™t the uluru statement from the heart rejected? I recall seeing an interview saying that it collapsed due to the aboriginal parties disagreeing
Nope. The voice to parliament was rejected by Malcolm Turnbull who made some outrageous and incorrect statements, in a desperate attempt to hold onto his job.

BTW itā€™s also not true that the Uluį¹Ÿu statement was put together by white people as erroneously claimed by Lidia Thorpe.
 
That may be true but many aboriginals walked out as they didnā€™t agree with the direction it was heading. What was handed down was not what many of the ā€œtribesā€ wanted
Mind you, thatā€™s democracy so Iā€™m not saying they were right or wrong
 

Voice to Parliament: Debunking 10 myths and misconceptions​

The Uluru Statement from the Heart is a generous invitation to all Australians from First Nations peoples to walk together towards a better future. Having a referendum on a First Nations Voice to Parliament is the first step on that walk; a chance to change the Constitution to enable First Nations people to be heard in matters that affect them.
Itā€™s that simple. Yet there are many myths and misconceptions muddying the waters, whether intentional or not. Here, we seek to debunk 10 of them.

Myth 1​

It will amount to a third chamber of Parliament and therefore impact parliamentary sovereignty, a fundamental element of our constitutional system of government.
What is proposed is a Voice to Parliament, not a Voice in Parliament. It will have no role in passing legislation; that will continue to be left to our elected representatives in the House of Representatives and the Senate, as currently prescribed by the Constitution.
The proposed Constitutional amendment states that the Voice ā€œmay make representationsā€ to Parliament. It will be up to Parliament to decide what it does with those representations. Indeed, the proposed Voice to Parliament is a very conservative change to our Constitution.

Myth 2​

It will be a lawyersā€™ picnic, and lead to lots of High Court challenges.
How Parliament responds (or does not respond) to any representations made by the Voice would be non-justiciable ā€“ that is, it could not be subject to any court challenge. This is because the courts have always been reluctant to interfere with the internal workings of Parliament.

Myth 3​

It will not help to close the gap or have a positive impact on the lives of First Nations peoples.
The Voice will provide advice to the Parliament on proposed laws affecting First Nations peoples. Accordingly, Parliament will be better-informed about the impact of the proposed laws on First Nations peoples, and can amend where appropriate. A better-informed Parliament is likely to lead to better laws that will have a positive impact on First Nations lives.

Myth 4​

It will give First Nations peoples special rights.
The Constitutional Expert Group comprising nine experts (including former High Court judge Kenneth Hayne) and chaired by the Commonwealth Attorney-General has advised that a First Nations Voice will not give First Nations peoples special rights. All Australians have the right to make representations to Parliament, which is guaranteed by the constitutional Implied Freedom of Political Communication. The First Nations Voice is simply a permanent one.

Myth 5​

Australians should be allowed to see all the proposed legislation establishing the Voice before voting in the referendum.
Too much detail will lead to confusion, and many people will likely not want to read a lengthy document. Thereā€™s already a detailed report that sets out what a legislated Voice could look like: Indigenous Voice Co-design Process Final Report.
Demanding to see draft legislation ahead of the referendum suggests a lack of trust in Parliament, given that the proposed constitutional amendment gives Parliament the power ā€œto make laws with respect to the composition, powers, functions and proceduresā€ of the Voice.
Itā€™s sufficient to have a detailed set of principles on which the Voice will be based. The Uluru Statement from the Heart website also contains a set of design principles.

Myth 6​

Thereā€™s no need to enshrine the Voice in the Constitution.
By enshrining the Voice in the Constitution, it will not be able to be abolished at the whim of Parliament/the government, in contrast to ATSIC (and just about every other Indigenous advisory body set up by the government). It will also not be afraid to give frank and fearless advice. Its composition, powers and procedures will, however, be able to be amended by Parliament to ensure its effectiveness.

Myth 7​

It will divide the nation
The Voice to Parliament will unite the nation, because it will be a big step towards reconciliation. A successful referendum on the Voice to Parliament will mean the Australian people have emphatically said that we want Parliament to listen to First Nations people, thereby signalling that we have accepted the invitation in the Uluru Statement from the Heart to walk together for a better future.

Myth 8​

Indigenous Australians are divided over the Voice, therefore it shouldnā€™t be supported.
Although there are some high-profile Indigenous Australians who do not at this point in time support the Voice (such as Jacinta Nampijinpa Price, Warren Mundine and Lidia Thorpe), a significant proportion of First Nations people do support the Voice. An IPSOS poll conducted in late January 2023 found that 80% of First Nations people support the Voice.

Myth 9​

It offends the notion of equality that underpins the Constitution and our democracy.
Our Constitution does not protect equality, and actively allows for racially discriminatory laws by virtue of s 51 (xxvi) (the race power). Further, the race power has only ever been used to make laws for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, laws that are not required to be beneficial laws.
The structure of our Parliament is also not equal ā€“ the Constitution requires the Senate to have the same number of senators from each state (12). This means that Tasmania, with a population of approximately 571,500, has the same number of senators as Victoria, which has a population of 6,613,700.
Amending the Constitution to provide First Nations peoples with a Voice to Parliament does not offend notions of equality; rather, it is acknowledging the finding of the High Court in Mabo v Queensland (No. 2) that ā€œTheir dispossession underwrote the development of the nationā€.

Myth 10​

The history of referendums in Australia means that it is likely to fail.
The most successful referendum in Australiaā€™s history of referendums was in relation to Aboriginal people (1967). More than 90% of Australians voted ā€˜yesā€™ to amending two sections of the Constitution to ensure that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples would be counted as part of the population, and that the Commonwealth would be able to make laws for them. This bodes well for a referendum on the Voice.
Also, social media has changed the landscape; times are different; polling shows relatively consistent support; and approximately 90% of the first 2554 submissions to the Co-design Process were in favour of the Voice being constitutionally enshrined.
And although bipartisan/multi-party support would be preferable (and has been crucial to the success of previous referendums), itā€™s arguably no longer a determinative factor due to the changing political and social media landscape. The result of the marriage equality postal survey, where Australians voted ā€œYesā€ despite a lack of bipartisan support, is indicative of this.

Nothing to be scared of​

We encourage all Australians to read reliable research to make sure weā€™re well-informed about what the Voice is, and what it is not. Donā€™t get sucked in by myths like the 10 weā€™ve debunked above.
The Voice is nothing to be scared of. On the contrary, itā€™s something we should be proud of. Amending our constitution to give First Nations peoples a Voice to Parliament would demonstrate weā€™re a mature nation, one thatā€™s ready to recognise past injustices, and committed to building a better future in which the rights and dignity of all Australians are protected equally.
 
Unfortunately for you mega, that lengthy ā€œmyth bustingā€ pieces is partly opinion based.
The fact check should be fact checked who in turn will fact check that one until we find the opinion we want
 
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